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The Press Democrat has updated its searchable databases for Sonoma County government salaries and pensions.
Sonoma County government salaries can be found here and pensions are listed here.
The data can also be found using the icons labeled ‘When They Retire’ and ‘What They Make’ toward the bottom of the Watch Sonoma County home page.
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The Dot,comm bubble burst, the Housing Bubble burst. Next up is the Government Bubble bursting. Like it or not.
The word ‘unsustainable’ has been attributed to the obscene salaries and pensions. That word was ignored for years, and still is. I think it’s too late when you look at the taxpayer ‘obligations’ to carry hundreds of thousands of bloated pensions and very high cost Health care for life.
From Cities, Counties, States, our Nation, yet alone all those useless boards, districts and commissions it is ALL unsustainable.
We have already gone off the cliff, the bottom looms.
The losers right now ? Citizens and front line County workers SEIU or not. I have had mostly great experiences with the harder workers. I have also seen incompetence, lazy, and wasteful.
Here is a perfect example of your tax dollars at work: Across the Freeway from the Wells Fargo Center, there is a vineyard, a good sized one. My son lived for some years in a house right in the middle. So, the Open Space district paid the vineyard owner for ‘permanent protection’.. Punch line- you can see the sign they put up driving southbound on 101, To put in that sign, 10 ‘workers’ showed up and took forever to do the job.
There was a tractor right there, with a proper post hole bit and ready to go. It was offered. NOPE, the ‘work crew’ unloaded their tractor with 10 guys standing around. Quite the sight, and refusing an easy way ? They were offered the tractor, or having myself or 2 others. Like ” Where do you want it? ” It would have taken 10 minutes tops.
Oh well, they know better.
My wife and I are living on about 1/3 of our highest years’ pay no problem at all…for the two of us that is NOT close to six figures.
Our biggest expense is insurance of all types with, of course, the most expensive being Medical.
Of course that means no boats, vacation homes, round the world cruises or fancy new cars.
We only replace things like appliances and electronics when the old ones break.
Any upgrades have been to reduce water consumption and electrical consumption.
When our 22 year old roof finally fails we will invest (in cash) for solar; not to power the whole house (we don’t really have a large enough roof for that plus we don’t get enough sun due to tall trees nearby that are not ours) but the goal would be to stay out of tiers 3 and 4 on our PG&E.
We’re guessing that even though we’re in our mid 50′s we’ll never buy another car, (my 1994 car has at least 20 years left in it and my wife’s 2007 might have 30).
I’m sure a recent retired Public Safety employee would find the way we live a true hardship and an insult.
Well, LBR, all I can say is that when we bought our 1800 sq/ft house in 1984, paying a 13.5% mortgage rate at the time, we knew that to live within our means meant not “moving up” as our incomes did…especially as we were growing our small business and needed to count our pennies.
In the 25+ years we owned that business we applied the same philosophy but, nevertheless, faced many critical years where bankruptcy loomed but we staved it off by squeezing the budget of administration, not line workers.
In the end that philosophy carried the day and we were able sell when the market cycle for that business was in an up cycle which in hindsight was an excellent strategy.
Had we not sold I’m afraid we’d have lost everything including our house but our, again, frugality and good planning saved the day.
Had we moved here in 2004 we most assuredly would have rented and saved the difference between that and the outrageous payments buying a house at the time would have necessitated.
Had we done that (renting) we would have bought a year or two ago at the bottom which is exactly what we did when we used our savings to buy two rental properties; one in which my daughter lives and one in which one of my ex managers lives.
Our frugality has allowed us to charge them very low rent and improve the properties for them, and future renters, to enjoy.
Frugality, however, has not been popular since the Credit Card Mentality began in earnest in 1969.
Haven’t carried a credit card balance since I was 22, (now 55).
After doing more investigation in Sheriff’s pay, I have found what appears to be subterfuge by Sonoma County B.O.S., Civil Service Commission, Human Resources, and the Sheriff’s Department. SoCo Human Resource page lists 1 classification of Deputy Sheriff I, Deputy Sheriff II, Sheriff Sergeant, and Sheriff Lieutenant. In reality, they have created 17 levels of Deputy Sheriffs ($5376-$8630/mo), 12 levels of Sergeants ($7418-$10,150/mo), and 3 levels of Lieutenant ($8943-$11,415/mo). This information is buried in the difficult to find MOU’s between the Sheriff and the County http://hr.sonoma-county.org/documents/dsa_mou.pdf; http://hr.sonoma-county.org/documents/dslem_mou.pdf.
The voters entrusted those government entities to develop salary schedules using comparable counties. Solano County is the closest to us in size and cost of living. They have 2 levels of Deputy Sheriffs, 1 level of Sergeant Sheriff, and 1 level of Lieutenant Sheriff. All paid less than our Sheriff employees. http://www.co.solano.ca.us/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?blobid=2850.
But even more disturbing is Sonoma County Sheriff employees make more than those in Santa Clara County (Silicon Valley), which has 1.4 MILLION more people, the 2nd highest cost of living in the Bay Area and is one of the most affluent areas in the US. They have 4 levels of Deputy Sheriffs ($6082-$7394/mo), 4 levels of Sheriff Sergeant ($7041-$8567/mo), and 1 level of Lieutenant ($8320-$10,115/mo) http://www.sccgov.org/sites/esa/Basic%20Salary%20Information/Documents/base_salary_plan.pdf.
The B.O.S., Civil Service Commission, and Human Resources departments appear to have not used comparable county comparisons in order to create an artificially high salary schedule for the entire Sheriff’s department. As a Sonoma County Taxpayer and constituent, I feel those entities have not been honest with us regarding actual Sheriff salary schedules. An independent investigation needs to occur regarding what research and which comparable counties were used. Until they can justify these excessively high salaries to the public, all Cost of Living increases and reclassifications need to be frozen. Otherwise, the voters will need to reset the salaries to comparable county salaries.
True, 75-80% is the generally used estimate of retirement income needed to maintain a person’s standard of living. Are taxpayers obligated to provide all of that amount for public employees?
Once upon a time, people saved for retirement. They didn’t spend 110% of of their working income, then wonder why they’re in a world of hurt when it’s time to retire.
My sympathies go out to people who foolishly chose to upgrade their standard of living rather they save for retirement. But again, why should taxpayers be on the hook for those mistakes?
We are becoming a nation of children.
The problem is that the public employees think that just because bought-off politicians promised them the farm in “good faith negotiations” that they “deserve” these profligate salaries and pensions. That would all be fine if the taxpayers could afford it, but clearly based on the budget deficits and reckless government borrowing, we can’t afford it. Government pay and bennies are out of line with economic reality and must be realigned. This is particularly true for management, police and fire.
The current approach of piling the problem on the next generation with 2nd class wages and benefits, while expecting them to pay off the debts we are incurring is immoral – shame on the incumbents for this approach.
@GAJ – most experts that I’ve read seem to think that 75% retirement is what is needed to live the same lifestyle retired as when working. You also worked and retired in a different age – most folks now, have grabbed onto the tail of the tiger and bought houses that were too expensive, but they felt they had to, or they never would be able to, and then the market fell out from under them and they’re now underwater. Did house prices ever fall for you? Did your 401k collapse just before you were ready to retire? It sounds more like you were able to take advantage of the situation and make even more money. Most folks haven’t been so lucky.
Stunning that people think a retirement where you make almost as much, (and in some cases more), that your average HIGHEST 3 years’ pay, (and good pay at that), is “logical” don’t understand how “retirement” was laid out in the first place.
Retirement used to assume that in your work years you’ve managed to pay off the house, sent the kids off to college and thus are near debt free and don’t need anywhere near the amount of $$ you needed when you were building your life, (ie. in your lower paid years).
Under that “logical” scenario even 50% of HIGHEST year’s pay would be more than adequate and generous.
75%? 90%? Granfathered in the early 2000′s to ALL workers on payroll at the time back to the time they were hired?
Crazy and unsustainable.
“Budgets” are not meant to “automatically” expand without sacrifice to fill one’s desire for more, budgets are trimmed based upon one’s ability to pay.
This whole fiasco is based on the lies initiated by CalPers in the late 1990′s which were swallowed hook line and sinker by Union friendly (as opposed to taxpayer friendly) politicians.
John, you retired before the expansion in retirement benefits and your pay during your highest years are nowhere near those of today.
Was you pension fair and sustainable or were you shortchanged?
@John – your cavalier attitude toward the increase in violent crimes (rape, murder, robbery, assault) puts you in the minority. Over the last decade, Sonoma County, as a whole, has seen an increase in violent crimes, while California, as a whole, has seen a decrease. Higher pay/pension for law enforcement doesn’t equate to a safer community. That’s all.
@John and Richard – you are absolutely entitled to base your opinions on emotions rather than a rational business model. The bottom line is the current salaries and pensions are not sustainable. Supervisor Mike McGuire just acknowledged that. Sheriff Idhe warned us about it a decade ago. Let’s have a true democracy and put San Jose’s proposals on the ballot and let the voters decide.
I’m using your data. Sonoma County Law Enforcement paid more than surrounding areas, and Sonoma County Crime is lower than surrounding areas. Your data. Empirical or otherwise. It is a logical conclusion from the data you provided.You can keep cutting and pasting articles here, but it is always the same. We pay more to be safer than Oakland, Richmond, etc. In my opinion as a tax payer and non-county employee, thank you deputies. I for one still believe you are the good guys. I don’t blame you for a broken and flawed system.
@Accountable
I wish the world worked that way, all by mathematics and numbers. So if you want to look at it tat way, yes…burglaries, thefts and arson have gone down that amount. So what’s your problem with the stats again? Rape, Murder, assaults? Wow, if only we could predict when/where this was going to happen.
I have a next door neighbor who is a Sherriff. Great guy, keeps his yard clean, respectful, and has a single story average house. Has 2 average cars, and once every couple years might have a good vacation. When he retires he sure doesn’t plan to buy a mansion. I’d say he’s not being paid anything above what he should be. Unless he’s burying all those millions in the backyard.
@Richard Gozina – I’m willing to debate the facts with you, but please give me empirical data or references to back up your opinion.
The following is from an interview with the former Sonoma County Sheriff http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120520/ARTICLES/205201072?p=1&tc=pg. “One former county sheriff who gets substantially less in retirement than his successors called the higher county pension amounts “obscene.” “Not only the pension piece, but the salaries,” said Mark Ihde, a two-term sheriff who retired in 1997 with a pension that is now little more than a quarter of the retirement earned by the latest retiring sheriff. But Ihde, the retired sheriff, says county leaders erred in their decision to improve benefits. “When I was there, I was saying ‘We can’t afford this,’ ” he said. “I do believe public safety employees deserve an enhanced pension, but not at this level.”” I know he subsequently backpedalled on that statement, but I believe his initial, candid interview.
Ken Churchill provides extensive empirical data to make the claim: “In the last decade, while the earnings of average Americans have stayed flat and people actually lost purchasing power, Safety employee salaries, the other multiplier in pension funds, have increased by 68%, and General employee salaries have increased by 76%, double the rate of inflation”. http://www.newsonoma.org/Resources/Documents/The%20Sonoma%20County%20Pension%20Crisis.pdf
Based on your opinion, we should see a dramatic decline in Sonoma County crime with the 68% increase in Safety salaries over the last decade. But your opinion doesn’t coincide with the facts: http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Sonoma-California.html.
@Chuck
“The county, along with local fire, police, sheriffs are all overpaid no doubt. Throw in some overtime and you’re well over 100k for the year.”
So, give us a number? What should Public Safety be paid? To say that without providing an answer is like complaining that “the world needs to be changed” but offer no suggestions. What is fair pay? Once you come up with that number please explain your process and reasoning by which you came up with that number. Based on what factors?
Then you say that “throw in a little OT”. Remember that these positions (especially in public safety) are REQUIRED to be staffed. So 3-4 workers take vacation (I assume that’s ok right?)Shall the city just close a fire station, or reduce the number of police or dispatchers, or paramedics for the day? The alternative is to staff over the amount of positions required so that you can backfill without paying OT (but that’s more expensive).
So again, first question…what’s “fair”? As I recall, there have been numerous periods throughout the last couple decades where the public thought what public safety earned was “fair”, and even scoffed at public salary. So now it’s “not fair”. Please give a number for each position, explain how you came to it, and then PROMISE you will not change your mind and cut pay, benefits, and contracted agreements to those positions (which has been done) just because times are rough for you.
Am I asking to much? Or do you want to stick to your belief of “It needs to be fixed”.
Respectfully,
John
So, Accountable thanks for doing the background work. Based on what you have found, the better we pay our deputy sheriffs, the safer our communities. That’s great. Keep up the good work Sonoma County Deputies.
@Prince Albert – Keep Up!!! I already gave the websites to check my info.
Deputy Sheriffs Base Pay – Go to http://www.mercurynews.com/salaries/bay-area/2011. Scroll down to “Sonoma” under County. Scroll down to “Sonoma County” under Entity. Scroll down to “SHF” under Dept. Scroll down to ”Dep Sheriff II” under Title. Look at each individual Deputy Sheriff’s BASE pay. You will then see a significant number of Deputies whose base pay is more than the County’s published max rate of $92,063.
Sonoma’s High Cost of Living – I already gave the website that debunked that myth http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Report-Basic-cost-of-living-soars-in-Bay-Area-2328452.php#photo-1838722. Our cost of living is less than every Greater Bay Area County except Solano. So, Alameda and Contra Costa Counties are substantially larger, have higher costs of living, AND are more dangerous.
Deputy Sheriffs’ salaries in Sonoma County are substantially above market. The facts don’t lie, unlike politicians.
The county, along with local fire, police,sheriffs are all overpaid no doubt. Throw in some overtime and you’re well over 100k for the year.
Those who we voted for and entrusted for the good of the community are the problem and reasons for this to happen. This is often referred to as “taking care of oneself”.
Now to switch gears a bit, throw in personal credit card debt that an individual has because they want to keep up with the Jone’s, this is only a tip of the ice berg. It has nothing to do with the past Republican Administration. What it does have to do with is individuals not living within their means. So please, go right ahead and move to Montana, Florida, the Mid West, the North West. It will not be any different, in fact you may wish you didn’t buy that luxory item on your Visa Card and stayed in Sonoma County, your choice.
@Accountable:
“Sonoma County has a population of less than 500,000 people and is listed as one of the safest places in America. Highest BASE pay of a Deputy Sheriff II is $103,989.”
Your, sir of madam, are full of beans. According to the website for County of Sonoma HR, a Deputy Sheriff II, top step, earns $92,063 annually.
In addition, your premise that “danger” is the only criterion for pay is flawed: cost of living locally is and should be the principle driver of comparative levels of pay.
It would be great to see the levels of pay from other employers in sonoma county. What does a middle manager at say, the press democrat make with salery and benifets? How about some of the winemakers and industrial managers?
@GAJ
Please understand that an “executive secretary” in the Community Development Department may not have the same duties as an “executive secretary” in the private sector.
You really do have to look at the job descriptions.
Actually doesn’t matter because that whole Department is going away thanks to Democratic governor Jerry Brown. No jobs mean no spending in the local economy. AND distorted retirement data, since the “Great (republican) Recession” is forcing folks into retirement and leaving the County.
Be careful what you wish for.
@GAJ – Great catch! I was just appalled at the overpaid level of bureaucracy compared to other Counties. I personally agree that government employees should participate in a defined contribution pension plan (like most of the private sector) rather than the defined benefit pension plan that is currently unsustainable.
I found the layers of highly paid Middle Management to be astounding. I’ll let you in on a little secret of how those layers occur. Sometimes the department has an inept Manager, but the agency won’t fire them. They add a highly paid Middle Manager to basically do their job. So, you have 2 highly paid people (with high pensions) doing the job of 1 person.
The other common occurrence is that a “preferred” employee is at the maximum of their job classification salary schedule. The Manager wants to reward that employee, so they tweak the job just enough to call it Management, so they can substantially increase the salary and future pension.
Granted this is just a small part of the critical situation in Sonoma County. But, we will have no real change with this Board of Supervisors. Voters unite!!
@Accountable.
Just to check I looked up pay and bennies for the Executive Secretary in the Community Development Department.
$66,034 with another $30,000 in benefits.
So almost $100,000.
This link says the average pay for that position in the private sector is $33,000, throwing in another 40% for bennies you come out a little below $50,000…so about half what the County pays.
http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-Executive-Secretary-l-Sonoma-County,-CA.html
Houston, we do, indeed, have a problem.
I agree with County Worker. The BOS is outragously overpaid and heads of departments are outrageously overpaid.
@County Worker – I’m not certain how you came up with your claim of County salaries 12% below market, especially when you look at comparable public sector job descriptions within the Greater Bay Area. When doing comparable evaluations, one has to consider that Sonoma has significantly less population and cost of living than most other counties in the Greater Bay Area.
Having said that, I can agree that the clear financial issue with the County, regarding salary and pensions, is the Board of Supervisors, the overabundance of Middle Management in virtually every department, and the Sheriff’s department. It is clearly not the Secretary salaries that are out of whack.
Even though the BOS pay is way over the top, the average pay for workers in Sonoma county is 12% below the market rate with a few exceptions. http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Report-Basic-cost-of-living-soars-in-Bay-Area-2328452.php#page-1
San Mateo Co Deputies are top in the nation in pay. Go figure. If you ignore the insanity of NYC, the bay area is the highest cost of living in the nation. Duh.
Sonoma County government pay is substantially above market. Not only has the B.O.S. obscene salaries been made public, but they are the tip of the iceburg. The tired cliché about our cost of living is bogus. We have the second lowest cost of living in the greater Bay Area http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Report-Basic-cost-of-living-soars-in-Bay-Area-2328452.php#photo-1838722. ‘TaxPayer’ directed people to the Mercury News website that allows us to compare salaries within the nine Bay Area Counties http://www.mercurynews.com/salaries/bay-area/2011.
Alameda County has a population of almost 1.5 million people, which includes Oakland, recently named the 4th most dangerous city in America http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/17/12172808-the-most-dangerous-cities-in-america?lite. Alameda’s highest BASE pay of a Deputy Sheriff II is $93,611.
Contra Costa County has a population of almost 1.1 million people, which includes Richmond, also consistently named as one of the most dangerous cities in America. Contra Costa’s highest BASE pay of a Deputy Sheriff II is $81,500.
Sonoma County has a population of less than 500,000 people and is listed as one of the safest places in America. Highest BASE pay of a Deputy Sheriff II is $103,989. More astonishing, there are 26 Deputy Sheriffs whose BASE pay exceeds $100,000. There is no way that any Sonoma County Law Enforcement Officer can claim their job is more dangerous than Alameda County or Contra Costa County. These salaries need to see a minimum of 10% cuts, as was done in San Jose. The other alternative is to actually practice democracy and let Sonoma County voters (the real employers) have a voice in how their tax dollars are being spent.
In case no one’s noticed, half the economy in this county depends on agriculture.
Ok, I just clicked ‘ ALL’ . It starts with ‘A’, the Ag department. Why do we spend so many millions for so many Ag ‘specialists’ ? Why ?
Fix the roads !!!!