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By PAUL GULLIXSON
I’ve never been on a runaway train. But listening in on the Santa Rosa City Council meeting Tuesday, I got a sense of what it must feel like.
To make matters worse, it sounded as if the conductor (the City Council) came on the loudspeaker and said, “Ladies and gentleman, we regret to tell you that this train is not only out of control, we are unable by law to stop it. We are, however, pleased to report that, after much negotiation, we’ve managed to reduce the rate of the train’s acceleration. We see this as a hopeful step that sets the stage for more progress when we revisit this issue again in two years.”
And, with that, the City Council on a 4-3 vote approved a two-year labor contact with Santa Rosa police that the city knows it can’t afford.
Yes, that is an oversimplification of what happened. Yes, the police union made concessions and, as recent stories and editorials have described, the city stands to save $685,000 over the next two years under this contract. But given that Santa Rosa is $112 million in the red in meeting its retirement obligations, it’s a penny on the railroad tracks. It may provide someone with a memento, but it will slow nothing.
Moreover, it doesn’t even keep pace with the city’s mounting pension debt. On March 14, CalPERS downgraded its financial forecast, meaning Santa Rosa will have to ante up $1.3 million to $1.7 million more toward retirement obligations over the next two years and each year after that.
In essence, by approving this contract, the City Council is conceding that the coming years will be more of the same for residents — more cuts in services, more fee increases, more scrimping and saving to feed a pension organism that’s looking more and more like something out of “Little Shop of Horrors.”
Want to know why funding for city parks is down $4 million since 2007 and why Santa Rosa now lacks the funds it needs to address vandalism, deferred maintenance and safety issues at parks? Wonder why the city doesn’t have the $350,000 needed to fix its building at Benton and North streets and, as a result, is evicting the FISH food pantry, which has been serving needy families for 17 years? You can hear the reason why. It’s crying, “Feed me, Seymour.”
The city’s pension costs have increased from $4 million in 2003 to $26.4 million last year. And that’s only going up.
“We can’t solve 20 years of negotiation with this single contract,” said Vice Mayor John Sawyer. He said the police union gave the city “what we asked for.”
Of course, he’s right. But this raises the question, did the city ask enough? Moreover, why is the city afraid to just say “no?”
The short answer is because city officials fear it will force a legal battle they can’t win. The reason is California courts have gone so far as to rule that public employees not only have a right to benefits they have accrued, but they also have a vested right to what they are going to accrue. It defies common sense, but there it is.
Of course, cities may unilaterally — and even retroactively — increase benefits, much as they did a decade ago, when in a breathtaking act of irresponsibility, city officials followed the lead of the state Legislature and many other government agencies over a cliff — giving employees what amounted to a 50 percent increase in their pensions for life. (Note: They were egged on at the time by labor unions and CalPERS who convinced legislators that pension portfolios were flush and any additional cost would be minuscule. They were wrong to the tune of billions.)
There is an out, however. The U.S. and California Supreme Courts have ruled that these contracts may be altered if it is “reasonable and necessary to serve an important public interest.” But to date, that exemption hasn’t been tested.
The situation in Vallejo presented the best opportunity to do so, but it wasn’t. Why? As a recent story in the New York Times reported, because CalPERS threatened to sue if Vallejo pursued it. And a city, especially a bankrupt one, doesn’t take on an institution with $240 billion in assets lightly. Thus, Vallejo went through its entire fiscal crisis without missing a CalPERS payment. And public safety officers there, as in Santa Rosa, are still able to retire at age 50 with pensions worth 90 percent of their final salary. It’s insane.
CalPERS last year issued a 20-page legal opinion which essentially warned all cities against trying to do something so foolish as to try and reduce pensions even in a fiscal crisis. It also spelled out the arguments for why a ballot initiative would be futile. In short, CalPERS has the state over a barrel and wants to keep it there.
In an editorial last week, we challenged the City Council to stand up and do the unthinkable and vote no on this contract — to pull the cord and try to stop this train. To do so would, no doubt, cause all sorts of bedlam. It may even cost the city more in the long run. But at least residents would know that someone was willing to put up a fight.
Right now, it feels like we’re not just rolling along, we’re rolling over.
Paul Gullixson is editorial director of The Press Democrat. Email him at paul.gullixson@pressdemocrat.com or call him at 707-521-5282.
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“Yes, that is an oversimplification of what happened. Yes, the police union made concessions and, as recent stories and editorials have described, the city stands to save $685,000 over the next two years under this contract.”
Why is it the only things the cityand unions report is fudged numbers. I’m not saying that there won’t be 685K in savings from one part of the contract – I’m saying when the employee cost includes all the numbers there is NO savings and INCREASED cost.
That makes the claim false and means taxpayers are paying more-not less.
@ GAJ – From your “EDITORIAL” link:
“The fund, which peaked at $260 billion in October 2007, lost $100 billion in assets by March 2009 and now stands at $235 billion.
That speaks to another frequent — and false — argument against pension reform. The Dow Jones Index may be flirting with new highs, but CalPERS is a long way from recovering its losses.”
Question; Why is this editorial quoting 2009 numbers? Isn’t this March of 2012? Do we always report on 3 year old news? Why choose the High numbers before the crash and the Low numbers after the crash when we are 3 years past the lows? Editorial Motivation??????
The real question should be where was the DOW in March of 2009 when these numbers were reported vs where it is now?
FYI, The dow closed on March 27 2009 it it’s low of $7776.18. It closed last Friday at $13,212. That’s a difference of 5436 positive DOW points that is not being considered in this very opinionated slant that you linked. WHY?
My question to you GAJ…You obviously read this opinion piece before you linked it, Why did you(being an intelligent person) also consciously CHOOSE to leave out this very pertinent information?
Only as biased as yours friend.
John… No assumptions. Pretty sure I made reference to the fact that all potential ambulance customers are not insured. Some are. Some are not. This is the case today… and yet the private ambulance companies seem to be doing just fine. Makes one wonder why they would not also be fine if they took on a larger role, allowing us to trim back the services provided by our public agencies, thereby also allowing us to spend less on public safety pensions, which are pushing us all toward insolvency.
I never assume there is honor in the private sector. While it certainly exists, corporate profits are what drives decision making. I’m simply asserting that the private sector is more efficient at providing services than the public sector. This is now and always has been the case. Your comments regarding the private mortgage industry, while accurate, are irrelevant to this conversation.
I appreciate your position, biased though it may be.
From Wednesday’s PD Editorial:
“According to (CALPERS’) own consultant, 99 percent of the nation’s big public pension funds have outperformed CalPERS over the past five years.
That’s right, 99 percent.
A summary of CalPERS’ earnings, prepared by Wilshire Consulting and detailed at calpensions.com, shows:
• A 5.29 percent return over the past 10 years, ranking in the 71st percentile among public pension funds with assets of more than $10 billion.
• A 0.57 percent return over five years, ranking in the 99th percentile.
• A 1.24 percent return for last year, a 44th percentile performance.
To add insult to injury, CalPERS pays $1.2 billion a year in fees to outside money managers on top of $29.5 million to its own investment staff — the experts who are supposed to be beating the market.”
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120328/OPINION/120329524/1043/opinion03?p=1&tc=pg
@ Let’s be – Your question is assuming that I agree with the ‘Chicken Little’ chants that PERS is failing.
I don’t think the sky is falling.
@ Citizens –
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120331/ARTICLES/120339913/1350?Title=Santa-Rosa-city-workers-agree-to-pay-cuts-wage-freeze
Here is a very simple change increase the RETIREMENT AGE of public employees to 65. It is crazy to be allowed to retire at 50.
Its time to let go of the Public workers on a very large scale. its time to elect a fiscally responsible leaders (Dems or Repubs)
If not the city will slide into the abyss. Folks will get frustrated with TA hicks to support a fat public employees so much so that they will move out – which means the poor will stay.
Get real for once – this county will sink to Vallejo level its only a matter of time.
56 hours/week. No Overtime. No holidays.
Why do you suppose Teachers are exempt from overtime and Cops and Fire aren’t?
Perhaps they should be put in the same exempt category.
GAJ,
I’d also support a 50 cent gas tax to pay down the debt if I thought for a nanosecond that’s what the money would be used for.
What are the odds?
John, you are in fine form today. I’m behind you on that. I also think it makes economic sense to me to have our fire personnel, who are otherwise “on call” at the stations to take on paramedic duties. You guys also seem to be smelling the wind properly and wisely agreed to trade pre-negotiated COLAs for paying your portion of the pension. You pretty much break even, but save money for the City on paper. But you have never answered me on what you think of Brown’s proposal to have existing employees pay half of defined benefit pensions?
@GAJ – “I have no problem with raising taxes if they are not piddled away on over the top pay and bennies. I’d support a 50cent tax on gasoline right now to pay down the debt.”
.
How about we put it towards fixing the roads instead – one of your pet peeves?
@ GAJ – Are you saying that police and Fire are “On call” Exactly like the private sector “on call” employees? Do you really think they are the same?
@ Jim – You posted: “Rationalizing unnecessary public departments overstaffed by unnecessary public workers who earn excessive wages and lifetime pensions with the argument that private companies offshore labor makes no sense. Those are two separate issues. Which would you like to talk about?”
If you are speaking about the last few years your are correct, they are two different arguements but if you want to talk about the last 20+ years then they are exactly the same. The companies utilizing offshore labor are some of the same companies that stole money from their employees pensions funds, declared them bankrupt, and broke the unions. Now they have taken the next step and eliminated their jobs altogether and moved to people who do not fight against their abusive practices. I’m not against companies making profits but when that profit comes at the expense of Americans being put out of work, being forced on the the public support system (which is the majority of your tax expendetures that you don’t want to talk about or acknowledge) and the profits become so high that they can afford to pay a CEO $300+ million dollars as a severance package for screwing up and still post strong earnings, I have a big problem with that.
For years before this union busting push, business made good profits, workers had secure retirement, could afford to send their kids to college, supported the local economy, and had pride in the company they worked for. Now workers are fighting to make it, worried about losing their job, have no retirement, no health benefits, and can’t count on the company they work for to have their back. By railing against unions that basically shows you support the actions of the corporate world more that the workers. That’s not spin. That’s the inference you yourself make in your attacks. So it’s the same because the arguement is about unions. Unions provide fair wages and retirement security. The new coprorate model does not. To say wages are excessive is subjective, not fact. The norm used to be lifetime pensions. To blame unions for the corporate mismanagement of those funds is a flat lie and frankly it is slander(right wing spin). To claim that public departments are overstaffed and unnecessary is also subjective. It may be your opinion but backed up by no measurable data.
@ Jim – You ask …”Where did I mention slave labor? And when did I say that was OK? Spinning the argument that public employees are overpaid and pensions are bankrupting the state at every level into me being pro-slave labor doesn’t change the argument. This is typical left-wing spin. When cornered with facts, attack the speaker with gibberish.”
In your previous post against unions you justified your arguement with this gem:
“Unions destroyed every industry they were in, driving companies into bankruptcy. Competition (Toyota, Honda, etc) was able to undercut GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc because the US union workers were significantly overpaid.”
At the time you are referencing Toyota, Honda, etc were only built outside of the US where labor standards are much less stringent than they are here. Now that unions have been busted many more corporations are outsourcing their labor to markets that have even worse standards. You yourself justified the destruction of unions and the profits of business by saying basically those practices were ok. Unions fight against those exacxt practices and you are fighting against unions. Effectively fighting against the US labor market.
I did NOT spin anything. I just finished what you left out.
The fact that US corporations in China & India pay nothing to their workers. The fact that their safety is in peril at work. The fact that outsourcing is killing the American Labor market. Read the article titled “The ongoing danger of exporting America’s future” in todays paper. This is not gibberish and your so called facts are incomplete and questionable. And very ‘Right wing’ using your own terms of attack.
I do think it’s good to see the biased, looney left view of the world to make sure we stay grounded in what”s right.
@bear
Those are just as much Democrat services as Republican services, and many Ds received lower tax rates too, and JFK, Carter, and Clinton controlled nuclear weapons, as does the current clown. By the way, there is NO such thing as a “tax cut” but only the tax rates that are established by Congress. So tax cuts are BS – the govt simply confiscates (by force if necessary) less money from its citizens when rates are lower.
Let’s hope that common sense wins out, and the incompetent amateur/community agitator in the WH is soundly defeated in November.
To: Paul Gullixson
This is the third time, in the past two weeks, I’ve seen the wrong number used to report unfunded pension liabilities in the past two weeks. Here are the funding levels and unfunded liability for each of the three plans (see bottom of page 5 in each report; or see bottom of page 15 and subtract Market Value of Assets (MVA) from Accrued Liability):
PD: funding ratio is 64.3%. The unfunded liability is 65 million.
FD: funding ratio is 63.7%. The unfunded liability is 52 million
Misc.: funding ratio is 70.8%. The unfunded liability is 132 million
The unfunded pension IS 249 million dollars. The numbers you are using are Actuarial Valuation numbers, and they are the wrong numbers to use when determining unfunded liability. You need to use the Market Value numbers (MVA). The actuarial numbers haven’t even recognized more than 90% of the 2007-2009 market losses.
If you were to ask CalPERS what lump some payment would be required to leave the plan I can guarantee you it isn’t anything close to the 112 million you’re reporting. Their calculation would be based on the MVA numbers, which total 249 million as of June 30 2010.
Link to all three of Santa Rosa’s CalPERS Actuarial Reports: http://www.calpers.ca.gov/index.jsp?bc=/about/forms-pubs/calpers-reports/actuarial-reports/browse-results.xml&strCatId=2&q=santa-rosa-city
@GetALife; that lie that cops and firefighters die sooner than other employees was used as a lever for those over the top bennies to Public Safety. The truth is they live just as long as other employees but collect retirement bennies far longer.
“CalPERS of course has to figure out actuarily how long their employees are expected to live in order to calculate retirement formulas and how much and for how long they will have to pay to retirees. Their findings pretty much debunk this myth once and for all as they find absolutely no difference in the life expectancy of miscellaneous members versus public safety officials.”
http://davisvanguard.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2977:calpers-debunks-myth-of-shorter-life-expectancy-for-safety-employees&Itemid=79
@John, how many hours per week are you actually working as to being “on call”? People in the private sector are not paid for being “on call.” Do you feel that complaining that local pay and bennies are greater for similar positions in NYC unfair?
@Bear, actually I think the “Bush” tax cuts must expire (even though it will raise the taxes I pay on dividends) and we must cut defense in order not to hand this mess our generation has created to the next.
I have no problem with raising taxes if they are not piddled away on over the top pay and bennies. I’d support a 50cent tax on gasoline right now to pay down the debt.
Government needs to start living not just within its means but BELOW its means as we’ve dug such a deep hole of debt.
@Money – “You are wrong in your inference that the local and state budget chaos has not already come upon us. It has. For you to deny that is a bit amusing.”
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!!?? All I said was that Paul was using some biased statistics in his article. Where do you get the above from!?
.
“Sonoma county wants to allow up to ten per cent of its roads to degrade to gravel. Care to explain why they are pondering that ?”
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Simple. The California gas tax has not been raised in 21 years. It is not a percent of price, so it does not increase with inflation. Real dollar amounts are falling, so there is less to spend on roads. In addition, Sonoma County paved a number of roads that should probably not have been paved in the first place. They did it without re-engineering the roads to support pavement, so it wears out VERY quickly.
@bear
Please don’t leave!
We need to hear the other side and you are it.
Many people are so deeply entrenched in reality that they have difficulty understanding how anyone could possibly believe in fantasy.
You create the contrast that shows people why their common sense views are not just a “given” and why they must fight for truth.
Keep up the good work!
Until recently Santa Rosa PD paid zero toward their pensions. They also paid zero for medical insurance and had zero co-pay when they sought medical care. Additionally, SRPD officers could get up to 25% extra in pay for a college degree, “shift differential” and other things that are not paid for in the private world. And the how much of my tax dollar that goes to SRPD is meaningless. The issue is that collectively CA taxpayer money is wasted on bloated government payrolls and pensions that cannot be supported. Where do you think the $500 billion + of unfunded liability came from?
Where did I mention slave labor? And when did I say that was OK? Spinning the argument that public employees are overpaid and pensions are bankrupting the state at every level into me being pro-slave labor doesn’t change the argument. This is typical left-wing spin. When cornered with facts, attack the speaker with gibberish.
A private company is free to do whatever is wants within the law. Rationalizing unnecessary public departments overstaffed by unnecessary public workers who earn excessive wages and lifetime pensions with the argument that private companies offshore labor makes no sense. Those are two separate issues. Which would you like to talk about?
GE pays nothing in corporate income tax and offshores the majority of its manufacturing. What candidate has GE given the most money to? Obama. What party has GE given the most money to? The Democrats. Again…ignoring the facts and laying blame at Republicans is missing the point also. BOTH parties are corrupt.
@ Vowell – You’re making a lot of assumptions. Like everyone that calls has insurance. Believe me, if there was to be more profit by having more ambulances available, you would see one on every corner. 911 calls is not where they make their profit, it is on hospital transfers but the 911 contracts get them that transfer business. If they could they would have you show proof of insurance before transporting you to the hospital and refuse service to those who don’t. This is not the medics and emt’s on the ambulances but the corporate “as much profit as possible” management heavy leadership.
Their profitability is not held back by the services provided to you by us.
You also assume that there is honor in private business. You know how well that assumption worked for us several years ago. Who is still making money and who’s losing their houses? How many very honorable WW2 vets have lost their retirement due the the lack of integrity of the PRIVATE stock brokers? How many of them can no longer afford their health insurance because some young wheeler/dealer sold bad loans and then profited on the shorting of those same loans knowing they would fail? SOLD KNOWING THEY WOULD FAIL! How many of those(private industry)brokers have been prosecuted for embezzlement? NONE! Honor in private corporations? It’s rare!
So if I’m understanding you correctly, the privately owned ambulance companies don’t staff sufficiently to handle all of the medical aid calls for service thereby necessitating the involvement of publicly funded public safety personnel. I also understand that both fire and ambulance are dispatched jointly to most calls for medical aid.
It seems to me that at some point the decision was made by Public Safety to become more active in the private medical aid business. The problem is that you guys are publicly funded… you rarely bill for your time. It’s largely a public service funded by all of us.
Private ambulance companies bill insurance companies for their services. While it is true that some of their runs go unremunerated, by and large it’s a profitable business. If the ambulance companies took a larger responsibility in responding to and being available for calls for service, they could build bigger businesses passing along the cost to insurance companies who are already legally obligated to their policy holders.
An argument could probably be made that having our public safety people being dispatched to calls for medical aid is in fact preventing some of those ambulance companies from taking on a larger role. Again, I’m not saying our guys and gals in red and blue aren’t among the best. I’m just asking if we really need to be using them for services that can reasonably be provided more efficiently by the private sector.
An unfortunate consequence would probably be having to eliminate a fair number of public safety positions. I’m sure we would all feel for them and their families.
I’m watching this train wreck of a pension system that we have in place. I’m not sure there’s anyone to blame. Everyone played a part in getting us all where we are. I appreciate the concessions made by public safety. They are, in my opinion, too little too late. We’re facing an unfunded liability of epic proportions. We’re all watching a bigger and bigger share of the collective pie being allocated for public safety. At some point, there simply won’t be enough of a tax base to pay the pension obligations. What happens then?
@GAJ. I never left.
Please list which republican “services” you wish to fund.
Tax cuts for millionaires?
Nuclear weapons?
An $800 billion annual defense budget?
Hire contrators making #100K+ in the Middle East?
Additional unnecessary wars?
“Fracking” to destroy watersheds and pretend we have a “100 year” supply of oil? Your grandkids will hate you.
Immediate increses in the price of all fuels when the price of oil goes up a bit and ALL the fuel is already on the market?
I can only assume you support the “solar” planes that will fly us around in 2112?
Hey, the oldest soldier killed in the Middle East was a 59-year-old reservist from Arizona.
Where are you and where are your kids?
Peace.
You private sector people need to understand something about pensions. The public employees contribute to there retirement and then are matched by the city that they work for. You are right in some instances that some fire departments make to much money for what they do. Not all fire departments are paying there people over 100k. The base salaries are not over 100k. The 100k comes from overtime. If you want to privatise the fire department pensions then understand the fire department may not take the risks that they do now. You may see them show up and pull hose and protect the houses next to your house and let your house burn up.
I would agree that the unions are a slippery slope. They can negotiate for to much money. Also relize that if you want the pensions cut then maybe we should just staff the fire department 8-5 and let them go home at night. If there is a fire they will respond from home for that accident or fire and you will get a delayed response for fires, vehicle accidents, etc. Send the ambulances for all medical calls. Responding from home will delay the response 5 to 15 minutes depending on the size of the city to those critical fires, vehicle accidents, etc. That will be great untill it is your family!
Most firefighter have pensions like that because there life expectency is about ten years after they retire. This is because of cancer! They got that cancer protecting your life and property. Don’t be reactive about pension plans. Most of you people who are concerned are going to be a lot more concerned when the police and fire don’t show up like they do now after you cut the unions and reduce salary and pensions. The grass will not be greener and you all will be the ones who probably suffer the most from the fall out.
My suggestion is to research exactly how the pensions are funded and why they are in existance.
@ Antonia – Paul can’t truthfully tell you about the “back room deal” because there never was one. There were interviews of ALL of the candidates before the elections and then endorsements were made. Again, EVERY ONE OF THE CANDIDATES ELECTED WERE ENDORSED BY THIS PAPER!
@ Jim – If unions are such horrible things, explain to me why it is that since this ‘movement’ (by the republican supported businesses) to eliminate unions that middle/working class wages and security has gone down while corporate profits and upper management wages have skyrocketed over 300%. Who is really benefiting from the destruction of the working class American? We can’t compete with the labor market of China, India, etc… because we don’t allow such otrocious working conditions in this country. This is a country that allegedly is sickened by child labor practices at Nike, is complaining about the working conditions at Apple plants in China, that demands environmental and safety standards, etc…
Jim, what you are suggesting is that as long as ‘slave labor’ and abusive practices are not on US soil it is OK and in fact preferential to paying a decent wage to American families in this country. That environmental contamination by china is OK as long as you get cheap products. That contamination of food products and lead in the paint on our kids toys is just dandy as long as corporations can show giant profits. That it’s ok to burn and kill hundreds of workers that have been locked inside a sweat shop. That’s what union supported democrats have traditionally fought to prevent. I can see how they are soooo EVIL. I can see how what “private” companies do with their money is “none of my business”. I can see how the theft of wages from American workers so that a few can have 10 jets instead of 1 or a 200′ yacht instead of a 100′ yacht is so much more reasonable.
As far as your “tax” money being spent how you want it…do you even know the breakdown of where your money is being spent? Forget that amount of detail, just tell me how much of “your tax dollar” goes to fund the Santa Rosa fire department.
Seriously, tell me a number. Don’t be like GAJ and not answer a challenge to his claims. Again, please give your definition of “work” GAJ.
@ Vowel Movement – Your fire companies are ALS companies (paramedic). Not all medical calls are life threatening but you don’t know that for sure until you get there. There are times when the ambulance gets there first or at about the same time but there are many times when the Fire engine gets there first. During a true medical emergency minutes and seconds count. For a cardiac event it can mean the difference between living or not. For strokes it can mean the difference between being able to function afterwards or being severely disabled. For a child choking or drowning … Get the idea?
Again there are many times when the fire engine is there first and by several minutes. The ambulance company only has so many ambulances on duty at a time and it is the minimum amount the corporate big wigs can get away with. That means on a busy day ALL of your ambulances can be tied up on calls or the aftermath of a call and be unavailable. It happens more than you know.
Why does Paul Gullixson refuse answer the question posed so well by Josh Logan? That is, why does he continue to “fail to mention the elephant in the room which is that Mayor Olivares and his city council majority of Sawyer, Ours and Bartley all had a secret backroom deal with the police and fire associations last election. It was reported in his own papers pages. We now see the fruition of that deal with cuts and take backs for all city workers,except these two groups. Coincidentally, these same groups are heavily sponsoring Mr Sawyer for his 1st district Supervisor race and the Mayor for city council.” Josh Logan is right, the PD and Gullixson have endorsed the majority who made this backroom deal with police and unions so, why does Gullixson leave these extremely relevant facts out of the discussion? I agree with Mr Logan that the PD and Paul Gullixson himself have consistently attacked and denied endorsements to people like Noreen Evans, Michael Allen and Shirlee Zane for being “too close to SEIU” but they never seem to have any problem when their endorsed candidates like Sawyer, Olivares, Ours and Bartley make sweetheart deals with the cops in exchange for endorsements and political support. I’m waiting for your response Paul?
The pay and pensions at the NYPD and FDNY are very very generous…but they pale in comparison to what our local boys and girls get.
I mean, really, how hard can being a cop or firefighter be in little old New York City?
Despite that, NYC is still in huge financial problems as a result of their generous pay and pensions.
After learning that the Santa Rosa City Council had a Closed Door (read secret) meeting before the vote on the police contract, why are they having a “Public Meeting” since the City Council gang of four had already decided how they were going to vote. The question for me is doesn’t the City of Santa Rosa have any Conflict of Interest laws? I do not understand how with $500,000 worth of City Attorney and City Manager sitting at the meeting, not one word was mentioned concerning Closed Door meetings or that Mayor Olivares should obstain from voting due to his Conflict of Interest with the Santa Rosa Police Department. I guess getting a Police Department pension of $128,000 a year doesn’t count.
Again…the Fire Department serves a purpose. As do the police. HOWEVER, the demanded wages, benefits and pension by the unions cannot be sustained. The argument that the Fire and Police are necessary is moot. Everyone agrees they are necessary. However, it isn’t necessary to pay a police officer $100,000/year when the supply of academy graduates without jobs is so high.
California democrats are reluctant to do anything that public employee unions oppose.Bought and paid for.They are just concerned about getting elected again.Federal bankruptcy laws should supersede state laws to reduce public safety pensions more in line with the private sector.Why is this unreasonable?
@ a little bit of reality…
I don’t understand your argument. The private sector workers can make whatever they can command. It is supply and demand. If a private company, whose wages are paid through business revenue, wants to pay someone $1B/year, so be it. Most likely they’d go bankrupt, but it is their choice. This is what happened when unions demanded absurd pay, benefits and pensions in the auto industry. The massive payroll expense sent the company into bankruptcy. The difference in the public sector is that politicians and union members think the money is endless.
What would happen to a private company that ran a $10 BILLION deficit year after year like CA does? It would go bankrupt, out of business. Period. Revenues wouldn’t support it, their credit would run out and they’d lay everyone off. A private company can’t just keep raising prices to generate revenue because market forces, market competition wouldn’t allow it. In government, they just go after more and more “revenue” through theft from the workers via taxes. In theory, “prices” are taxes and the government keeps raising them to support the waste.
This is why unions have been basically eliminated from the private economy and so prevalent in the public. Unions destroyed every industry they were in, driving companies into bankruptcy. Competition (Toyota, Honda, etc) was able to undercut GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc because the US union workers were significantly overpaid. Bankrupt.
In CA, businesses are leaving because the taxes are too high. High earners are leaving because the taxes are too high. Retirees are leaving because the taxes are too high. Just as people bought a Honda instead of a GM car because the price was too high, the “price” of living in CA is too high. The “company” of CA is bankrupt, just like every city in America, because of excessive union benefits.
Pro-union or anti-union…doesn’t matter. The dollars and cents matter. You just keep taking from the “rich” because they’ll be gone. The middle class will be supporting the unnecessary workers in unnecessary departments, AND those who retired from them. This doesn’t poll well.
Lets Be Reasonable:
You are wrong in your inference that the local and state budget chaos has not already come upon us. It has.
For you to deny that is a bit amusing.
Sonoma county wants to allow up to ten per cent of its roads to degrade to gravel.
Care to explain why they are pondering that ?
A Little Bit of Reality:
You are mixing apples and oranges, to use a very old expression.
You said, “On the other side, no one was concerned with how much the fire department was making when the private sector was making 250,000.00 a year and playing golf ever day at lunch.”"
You either simply don’t understand or you refuse to understand your error.
Government is paid for by everyone and we all have a say in how OUR money is spent. And most agree government absolutely wastes our money and self enriches with OUR money.
On the other hand, and the part you fail to acknowledge, a private company earns its own keep and spends its money on the employees within that company. They can have all the lunches they want and its none of your business.
What people do with private property is none of your business.
What people do with their private paychecks is none of your business.
How much a company pays its employees is none of your business.
Why?
Because that companies money is not yours. But government money IS OUR MONEY.
You are correct, though. Fire departments perform fewer and fewer and fewer actual responses to burning fires. Were it not for their “first responder” duties, they’d all be totally idle 95% of the time.
The problem with the “runaway train” analogy is that this train has brakes. And like a train, the passengers have access to the brake lever even if the conductor is too drunk with spending power to pull it.
Ban Public Employee Unions and the train will IMEDIATELY being to slow down.
Use the fist round of savings to beef up the HR Department & start the interviews.
The Public Employees who want to stand their ground will be welcome to 99 weeks of unemployment checks.
The rest can continue their careers in Government under new management. US!
Well the facts are true. 70-80% of all calls the fire department go on are medical. The fact that they go on less fires is true. With that said the fire department has made you safe by implementing strict guidelines for sprinklers in your house and better construction. These guidelines have reduced the amount of fatality fires the fire department responds to.
On the other side, no one was concerned with how much the fire department was making when the private sector was making 250,000.00 a year and playing golf ever day at lunch. The unions protect the Fire Departments from having there retirements stripped by local politicians who have nothing better to do then to bust the blue collar working class. Don’t forget when you dial 911 you depend on the Fire Department and when you have a major crises in your life you will want the red fire engine out of in front of your house. Why don’t we ask the people who have dialed 911 and have seen the Fire Departments in action. Let’s ask them what they feel is important. If you want to see what the major crisis is in the world for a little bit of realiyt go ahead and watch the movie the inside job. That is reality. That is where the problem lies.
Money,
The idea of sending out two emergency response vehicles for virtually every 911 call needs to be rethought. Worse, firefighters respond in (very expensive) fire trucks lest a fire call come in.
Most of the time it’s a terrible waste of manpower and money. Rarely (I’ve not seen any stats), it’s a life and death matter. Change will not come easily.
RC… thank you for addressing this topic.
Maybe John can speak to the issue of why we’re dispatching our engine companies to assist private contractor ambulance companies on routine calls for medical aid? Seems to me that the ambulance medics are more than qualified to handle any medical emergency. Why are our firemen going to these types of calls? I am also very curious about what percentage of total calls for service medical aids represent.
For clarification, I’m referring to medical aid only. Not vehicle accidents. Nothing requiring Hazmat teams or emergency vehicle extractions. Just plain old medical aids.
Why do public safety(public servants)think they are holier than thou, with regards to compensation? There are lots of dangerous jobs out there.
Realty Check:
With regard to fire fighters currently being used as “first responders,” I would like to point out that they usually and often arrive not much sooner than the ambulance.
In any case, they don’t deserve the huge, criminally excessive public safety pensions that they get.
Carpenters, cab drivers, steel workers, electricians, and a whole lot more of private workers put their lives on the line every day without the benefit of a huge government pension at age 50.
Mr. Gullixson,
Mostly a good article. a couple of issues, though. Using an out of control train analogy for a pension related story is a bit much. An out of control glacier might be more apt; we’re dealing with long term liabilities here. And long term, the City has improved by giving new employees a lower pension. I would go further and have current employees pay half of their pension costs. Second, how come you are using figures from 2003? Could it be that was when CalPERS was Superfunded, and the City was not paying at all for most employees? Why are you trying to distort the facts instead of providing truth? Yes, pension costs are rising too fast, and more needs to be done, but why sensationalize it this way?
This editorial is almost exactly the same as a post I wrote after the article says the Santa Rosa Sups voted 4-3 for the joke called a pension deal.
This exact same situation exists in every city and the state level. Pay and pensions dominate budgets, leaving little for other city services.
The argument isn’t whether police work or being a fireman is difficult, many jobs are difficult and DON’T have the excessive pay and benefits, along with a lifetime salary at 50. The argument is why market forces aren’t allowed to work when it comes to hiring. In the public sector, when there is a job opening companies offer a salary depending on market forces. Back in 1998-1999 when the dot-com boom was going on, IT people were paid ridiculous amounts of money because the demand far exceeded the supply. When the market crashed and the tech companies went under, supply of workers exceeded demand and salaries dropped.
In the public sector, the unions force the salary. There is no supply and demand. I know for a fact that there are hundreds of people who have graduated from the SRJC, Napa, Solano County and Sacramento police academies who can’t find work. This is a massive supply of workers but demand for them is low (because cities are broke from the pay/pensions of current workers). In a real free market situation, these qualified workers would drive DOWN salaries. The cities would be able to handpick workers from a large pool, paying a salary commensurate with the over supply. However, in the crazy world of union controlled politicians and union controlled cities, salaries remain high.
This control over the free market in the private sector (airline industry, auto industry, etc) caused the collapse of the companies because revenues couldn’t support the excessive salaries and benefit. In the public sector, cities and states just steal more from the taxpayer to cover the excessively overpaid workers. Just as the housing market collapsed because a house in Stockton couldn’t possibly be worth $500,000, the cities and state will go bankrupt because the taxpayer will eventually say no police officer is worth $150,000/year for life. Market forces should control salaries, not powerful unions and the politicians they bribe.
Once upon a time, long long ago, firefighters waited for fires. In the meantime they cleaned, trained, played games, and slept.
Somewhere along the way, maybe 50 years ago, it became policy to respond to every emergency call, which are mostly medical. And over time Americans started calling 911 for emergencies that were, well, not about life and death matters.
The upshot, firefighters no longer sit around and wait for the phone to ring. They are, most of the time, busy, and busy on stressful and demanding calls.
Still, either they need to pay more, a lot more, to fund their generous pensions, or they should be whacked.
City Council’s thinly veiled Republican majority caves to Simon Properties and the city’s powerful public safety associations, but is willing to “stand up” to downtown businesses by cutting streetcleaning services. Councilmember Ours even jokingly called it the city’s new Grab a Broom program. Of course they don’t want district elections. Only the current, rigged system would repeatedly reward this corrupt majority.
“We can’t solve 20 years of negotiation with this single contract,” said Vice Mayor John Sawyer. He said the police union gave the city “what we asked for.”
Of course, he’s right. But this raises the question, did the city ask enough? Moreover, why is the city afraid to just say “no?”
The answer Mr. Gullixson failed to provide is that the two public safety associations are powerful members of the pro-Developer faction that has dominated Santa Rosa politics. Their Independent Expenditures spend large sums of money to smear candidates who don’t play ball with these bullies. Yes, bullies! That’s what they’re doing, bullying Santa Rosans who, unlike their hacks Sawyer, Oliveras, Ours, and Bartley, ask for more.
“You do recognize socialisim dont you?
From each according to what we can take and to me, according to what I think I deserve”.
-Apres Nous,Le Deluge
Watch carefully. This is that slow motion, quiet moment before all hell breaks loose.
ANOTHER TWO examples of a cop playing judge, jury, and executioner. Its that badge. It has magical powers. OBEY the badge !!!
———————
1)
“”A member of the New Orleans Police Dept. has been suspended without pay after incendiary comments attributed to him about the killing of Trayvon Martin were found posted online.”"
————–
2)
Los Angeles Times, today, online
LAPD Accuses White Officer Of Racial Profiling
By Joel Rubin
@ GAJ – As far as “sleeping”…
My last shift we ran 18 calls most of which were after 10 at night. Didn’t even get to try until after 3:30 am. I sure got a lot of sleep that night (pause …NOT!)
You obviously know EXACTLY what you are talking about. (NOT!)
And until you can find a way to schedule EMERGENCIES (oxymoron) you can’t run public safety like your private business.
@ GAJ – The answer is yes.
“If you think it’s just dandy that nearly 3/4 of the Fire Department earn over $100k”
Because those same people are working the equivalent of 2.5 full time jobs in the 40 hour week private setor. So to be clear, compared to the private sector, we are working the same as 2.5 $40k/year jobs. I can see how that is just absolutely OUTRAGEOUS. I think “EARN” fits well.
As far as retirement; Overtime, sick time, vacation, etc… are NOT COUNTED for retirement calcualtions. Bartel just was quoted that CalPERS watches very closely for any ‘spiking’.
But again the information is out there if you want to know the TRUTH! It’s all public information.
Public information that is NOT REQUESTED when the editors of this paper CHOOSE to print only partial facts. You should demand more from your newspaper. But because you don’t want to know they only print what will sell more papers. It’s Gossip.
@ GAJ – What is your definition of work? I’d like to hear that one.
Uh, the “Bear” is back.
The haunting continues.
Why is Mayor Ernesto Olivares voting on penions for the Police and Fire when he directly benefits from such a pension himself (he worked for 30 years for the SR police dept), and his own pension may be indirectly affected if he were to push for the radical reforms needed? He should have recused himself due to this blatant conflict-of-interest. On the other hand, why did Santa Rosans elect someone who is obviously not able to tackle the biggest issue for SR in decades? I suppose the support of the bullying Police and Fire Unions could have a lot to do with it. Remember their dirty tactics against Gorin? Watch out for those same tactics against Gary Wysocky in the next election – they’ll stop at nothing to sway the election to their own candidates.
“The information is out there…”
What information is out there?
The large number of overtime hours police and firefighter routinely work is in part a result of the pension situation. It is cheaper to pay someone overtime than to hire someone new and be on the hook for another outrageous pension. But is it really a good idea to routinely have public safety work large numbers of overtime hours? Anyone is more apt to make mistakes when they are working a long day, and in a crisis situation where we need to quickly ramp up the public safety personnel there just are not as many employees to go to.
In view of your concern about pensions you might be interested in reading “Retirement Heist” by Ellen E. Schultz. Very enlightening.
John; define “work” when it comes to the Fire Department.
To me putting on your uniform, cooking, sleeping, watching TV, driving to Safeway in a Fire Truck are not “work.”
In any event the information you ask for is not posted in the “How Much They Make” database on the Home page of WSC.
Note that in Sebastopol the average pay per firefighter is zero as it is all volunteer.
If you think it’s just dandy that nearly 3/4 of the Fire Department earn over $100k, and are eligible for almost that same amount when they retire I have nothing to tell you.
If you don’t know that those benefits are a direct result of CalPers “raising the bar” in 1999 on State Pensions by outright lies then you don’t know your history.
@ GAJ – You posted:
“But locally the City fathers have been equally insane on the pay front.
In 2010 109 people (of 262) in the Police Department earned over $100k, (obviously that number is higher today).
The Fire Department has 103 (of 141) who earned over $100k in the same year.”
I ask you because i’m sure you know as I have repeatedly explained it to you.
How many hours are worked to earn what you claim?
It’s not a rhetorical question. I want to see if you actually took the time to gather ALL the facts or just choose to jump on the parts you can spin to be outraqeous.
It’s funny how NOT ONE OF YOU noticed that Gullixson, with his mighty pen of opinion, finished his opinion piece with this little gem:
“It may even cost the city more in the long run. But at least residents would know that someone was willing to put up a fight.”
He doesn’t care one bit that his suggestions could COST MORE. He wants to make a point more than he wants to fix anything. That my friends is IRRESPONSIBLE for a man in his position. That is an abuse of his power of persuasion. That is a political contribution in the form of advertising that doesn’t get reported when campaign finances are requested.
It initially surprised me that none of you picked up on that statement but then after some thought you all don’t really care about that either. It’s not part of your agenda. The information is out there…if you ever want to do some work to find out. But i’ll warn you, it will conflict with your beliefs. You’ll have to use your mind instead of your emotions.
Pretty much everything that can be said about public employee salaries, pensions and health insurance and fire and police salary and pensions and health insurance in particular has been said ten times on the PD boards, in the press and on the internet. The public employee salaries and benefits are mathematically unsustainable. It doesn’t matter whether the public employee unions negotiated those salaries and benefits in good faith, in good times or whether they bought every politician with bribes. The public employee managements and unions are not ready to really contribute to solving the problem. (Agreeing to lower pay for “new hires” is virtually meaningless.) They hope they’ll get their money before the system collapses. The politicians lack the will to solve the problem. They are not about to give up their salaries, per diemes and pensions either. And it appears that they are not willing to go against the public employees unions that fund their re-elections. At some point, the ponzi scheme will collapse. The entire budgets of cities are close to being used up to pay public employee benefits. If you eliminate the deficit spending, some cities are already spending more than 100% of their budgets on employee salaries and benefits already. (See Healdsburg.) Everyone seems determined to get as much as they can until the whole scheme collapses of its own excesses into a massive disaster of bankrupt or defunct cities and counties and the State.
Fast Track:
The public employee retirees will always receive their checks and in full. Its not a guess.
Know why?
Because the so called government “leaders” rigged the game so that every time the public pension funds fall to unsustainable levels, the taxpayers are REQUIRED to pay extra $$$ into the pot.
You should ask ‘what will happen when the majority of tax money goes to public pensions and not government operations’ because that has already started.
Paved roads? Nope. Gotta pay those pensions.
Street lighting? Nope. Gotta pay those pensions.
Maintenance on public buildings? Nope. Gotta pay those pensions.
Library books? Sure, if you like outdated materials by years.
Getting the idea ?
It’s interesting that Mr Gullixson refuses to mention the elephant in the room which is that Mayor Olivarez and his majority of Sawyer, Ours and Bartley all had a secret backroom deal with the police and fire associations last election. It was reported in his own papers pages. We now see the fruition of that deal with cuts and take backs for all city workers,except these two groups. Coincidentally, these same groups are heavily sponsoring Mr Sawyer for his 1st district Supervisor race and the Mayor for city council. Why does Mr. Gullixson leave these extremely relevant facts out of the discussion? Could it be because he and his editorial board have endorsed these same candidates? I am somewhat baffled that the PD which constantly beats up Noreen Evans, and Michael Allen and Shirlee Zane for being “too close to SEIU” never complain when Sawyer and Olivarez make sweetheart deals with the cops in exchange for endosements and political support. Smells like a double standard to me.
The whole pension thing will go bankrupt in about 5 years so don’t worry about it.
Let’s blame republican economic policies, which have taken down the housing market and destroyed rates of returns on investments.
Maybe your 401K is trashed? You chose it. Expect a war if public employee pensions, which were part of their compensation, and were never a choice, are trashed by your simple jealousy and lack of ethics.
Want out of your credit card debt? Just call the folks on TV – the unreality in which you live.
It’s too bad the majority of the city council failed to grow a spine and tell the public safety folks NO.
@GAJ It wasn’t just CalPERS. They had a lot of help from Gov. Davis who was buying votes (with our money) from the correctional and law enforcement unions, and other dubious “public safety” employee unions.
…and by the way Paul, why aren’t you getting on the same soapbox about the unfunded liability being created by allowing County roads to turn into gravel. In many ways it is not much different from the pension crisis. If we don’t take better care of the roads now, future generations will go bankrupt paying for it later.
The few things we can count on the people on the city council to do is 1) pretend this does not exist, 2) continue to say what they are doing is for the greater good (of the city employee only) and 3) anyone want to talk about unifying Court House Square??
Isn’t it a part of the overall problem that the Mayor of Santa Rosa is a retired police officer?
Sure it is. Anyone who denies that is only fooling himself.
I’ll never vote for another former police officer into an elected position. Never.
To use the very old phrase, its the fox guarding the hen house. Or, a more apt description? The pimp guarding his ladies.
The truth is, Santa Rosa and the entire state pension system is bankrupt and will not be able to pay the hundreds of billions that are unfunded now.
What will happen is that many, many of the public pension members will not receive their pensions in anything close to the amount they are counting on. The funds are not there and will not be there. The problem is growing and getting worst every day.
The public pensions are breaking the budgets in California. PERS can argue the cities cannot reduce their pensions, but PERS will not have the funds to pay out the pensions now contracted for.
City Councils have their heads buried deeply in the sand on the budget deficit issue.
A good summary of where Santa Rosa stands, Mr. Gullixson. There is no doubt that laws and regulations have in great part and very intentionally tied the hands of cities to make the reductions and adjustments in pension plans that are absolutely critical to long-term sustainability both of the pensions and the cities. But, neverthless, I agree that it seems the SR city council just rolled over instead of working harder to confront the problem and actually make signficant efforts to fix it. If the majority of the council thinks it can accomplish anything but further and escalating decline in our city by this current postponement, it is badly mistaken. These four want to wait until there is change at the state legislative and regulatory levels. Well, good luck with that. I see little evidence that such change is in the works. Sometimes for change to ensue, action must be taken at the local level and then let the chips fall where they may legally.
I’m not suggesting the city should try to force something immensely unfair on either police or fire, but the terms agreed upon last week are still far too rich. There was talk about how other cities in CA of “comparable size” need to be kept up with regarding compensation. Ridiculous. This just leads to further inflation. SR, stop worrying about other cities and focus on what our city can and cannot afford. To have so many police making over $100K just doesn’t make sense. Likewise with the fire department — and with some others in city government who make a salary out of whack with their duties.
Right on point Paul; the Pensions were already generous, but sustainable, until they were increased about ten years ago due to the lies told by CalPers.
Seems to me that those increases, based on pure lies, could be over turned.
But locally the City fathers have been equally insane on the pay front.
In 2010 109 people (of 262) in the Police Department earned over $100k, (obviously that number is higher today).
The Fire Department has 103 (of 141) who earned over $100k in the same year.
Perhaps pay should be slashed 25% with the justification being the money needs to be used to fund their outrageous pensions!
Even something that drastic would not spare other City employees from being sacrificed to feed the Pension beast.