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Lily Berkeley and her dog, Honey, attend a rally to defend the SMART commuter rail project at Railroad Square in Santa Rosa on Thursday. BETH SCHLANKER/PD
By BOB NORBERG
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
North Bay rail advocates rallied Thursday in a show of support for the Sonoma-Marin Area Rail Transit system, defending the commuter train project as a benefit for both the economy and the environment.
About 300 people assembled at Santa Rosa’s Railroad Square for the hour-long rally, which was staged by the SMART Riders Coalition, a group of labor, business and environmental organizations.
“This is one of the best investments that Sonoma and Marin county has made. We are creating economic prosperity,” said Sonoma County Supervisor Shirlee Zane, who is also a SMART board member.
The gathering came four days after a town hall meeting by RepealSMART, a group collecting signatures to place a measure on the ballot next June or November that would repeal the SMART sales tax.
SMART has a $360 million plan to build the first stage of a commuter rail line from Railroad Square to downtown San Rafael. As additional funds become available, the line would be extended north to Cloverdale and south to Larkspur.
The board approved the sale of $191 million in construction bonds on Wednesday and will consider awarding a contract for construction in mid December.
Critics note that the initial rail line is smaller than the one promised to voters during the 2008 sales tax election and is one or more years behind schedule. As a result, RepealSMART organizers contend the public should have an opportunity to vote on the project again.
State Sen. Noreen Evans, however, said the voters have already spoken in favor of SMART.
“This is happening statewide,” the Santa Rosa Democrat said. “There is an anti-rail movement, an anti-community movement, an anti-jobs movement, and we need them all and we need them now.”
The rally was meant to demonstrate that support.
“Where else are you going to find a group as diverse as this? The common connection is that SMART is good for the future. It will relieve dependence on petroleum, it will create jobs, it will promote tourism,” Jack Swearengen, chairman of Friends of SMART, told the crowd.
Jon Dick of Santa Rosa, a heavy equipment operator who was recently laid off by Syar Industries, said while he wouldn’t be working on the rail line, the work on SMART could affect him indirectly.
“Working in mining is dependent on development,” Dick said. “The last two years things have been slow.”
Rich Nosker, a Santa Rosa public works engineer, said he supports SMART even though he knows it has its problems.
“I’m a bike rider, I walk, I drive a car and I’d love to take the train,” Nosker said.
More than a dozen organizations are part of the SMART Riders Coalition, which include the North Bay Central Labor Council, Operating Engineers Local 3, the Sonoma Alliance, the Sonoma County Bicycle Coalition, Friends of SMART, the Living Wage Coalition and the Accountable Development Coalition.
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@ Matt Stevens- Thank you for the clarification- you made my point rather well. It would be much harder for me to misunderstand if SMART reported their information with more clarity or completeness. Their financial statements are bizarre, and don’t allow for an accurate analysis of expenditures…. same with their list of contracts.
My comment was quite tongue in cheek- I appreciate the work you do to bring greater transparency to the process- there is much value in documenting SMART’s meetings, and it brings at least a hope for greater accountability. And I have no animosity towards those who have made more money than I- I find the us versus them of the 1% label to be kind of silly.
And as a business owner, I also understand the concept of gross versus take home, and that there are expenses. But I appreciate you clarifying nonetheless.
@George Johnson- Why don’t you insist that SMART tell us how much of our money they are wasting as quickly as they can? They are in the driver’s seat on the money-wasting train- we have no control over that. We informed them of our intentions very early on, and they have taken no measures to mitigate taxpayer loss- quite the contrary.
I’m always up front with people- when they ask me how much will be lost, I tell them potentially tens of millions. That is, if SMART decides to throw in the towel instead of finding alternate funding, or coming back to the voters.
Still better than wasting a BILLION and creating an ongoing annual liability of $15M-$20M in perpetuity!
Besides- since government spending irrespective of results seems to be the answer, just chalk it up to stimulus. It has helped our community (and others) stave off even higher unemployment, and should be considered a worthwhile expense- right?
Cause we’re not measuring success by how many taxpayers are served- success is measured by how much money we can spend, right?
Why won’t the backers of the repeal effort tell voters what the ACTUAL COSTS are for this Repeal? Their insistence on yet another vote after 70% had already voted for SMART is basically a demand that they should get the chance to veto a project that is already been approved, and has tens of millions of dollars of contracts and expenses that are already encumbered (and more importantly,which will have to be paid by our taxes even if they kill the project)
The arrogant insistence of Clay Mitchell, John Parnell, and the repeal smart effort has already cost the citizens of Marin and Sonoma over $17M in added bonding costs. When you add in the costs of the election, and the additional litigation(Repeal SMART is a Full Employment Act for Lawyers), we will end up in the vicinity for $20 million dollars. AND NO TRAIN. These are the folks who claim to be all about protecting the taxpayer?
RE: Matt Stevens – “I don’t usually respond to these types of mis-characterizations, but I felt that this needed clarification.”
Feel free to respond to the question of what you did to earn and fulfill those contracts since 2008 too. I certainly wouldn’t want to ‘mis-characterize’ you and state that you’re just another person feeding at the SMART trough at taxpayers’ expense.
Heads, I win. Tails, we keep flipping again until I win. Once I win, the game is over – forever.
This is the socialist prospective of politics. If a socialist program (usually taxes, but not limited to taxes) is voted down, the proposal will appear again at the next election (or preferably a special election since not as many moderate voters show up at one issue special elections). Repeat until the socialist program eventually passes. Even the socialist program turns out to be a compete mess, we may never revisit that issue.
Matt Stevens,
Maybe you just don’t see a bit of facetiousness when it is in front of you? Of course, you did say you laughed, but it doesn’t sound as if you were laughing in tune with the humor that was offered?
I believe Clay knew that the $300K+ amount covered all your contracts since 2008. But does that fact matter hugely? A heck of a LOT of people would consider that kind of money from a client over four (plus?) years to be QUITE handsome. Not literally 1%, but still nothing to sneeze at.
When this taxpayer sees large contracts for “Public Outreach Consulting Services,” I think it is money that could be better spent — especially by an agency such as SMART that is only able to bring in 1/2 the train and 1/3 the bike paths for the Measure Q tax money.
Jay Behr,
You’ve got to be kidding. The $17 million is a cost of SMART’s refusal to wait with the bonding until the voters rightfully make a decision about the very different terms of this huge expenditure than was shopped in 2008. There is no reason for SMART to go ahead now and incur additional cost because the bond money has to wait in escrow anyway until the RepealSMART intiative either goes to the ballot box or doesn’t. Don’t put the $17 million at the voters’ doorstep! It belongs squarely on SMART’s.
Don’t pose the pretense that we citizens shouldn’t exercise our rights to vote on huge public expenditure projects that have majorly changed since past approval. Your comments are quite reprehensible, and it is you who are speaking irresponsibly and without civic pride in our system. Sovereignty is held by the people — don’t forget it.
‘ matt Stevens. You have a contract for public outreach ? For over $100,00 a year ?
What have you done to earn the money, please tell us.
Better yet, tell the PD
“Repeal campaign comes with $20M price tag”
I hear some naïve folks state: “Well, let’s just take it to a vote. How can that hurt?” Folks, it already has hurt you. The backers of the repeal effort would have you think that they are merely exercising their first amendment rights, and that they should get the chance to veto a project that is already been approved, and has tens of millions of dollars of contracts already let (which will have to be paid even if they kill the project). OK, they have the legal “right” to leverage a $50 filing fee into a multi-million dollar legal and fiscal train wreck, but that does not mean that we have to respect their lack of social responsibility. They should be shunned and distained by anyone with a civic conscience for this egregious penalty that they have already imposed on the taxpayers.
The petulant and arrogant insistence of Clay Mitchell, John Parnell, and the repeal wrecking crew in pushing forward to try to overturn the 70% vote for SMART has already cost the citizens of Marin and Sonoma over $17M in added bonding costs. When you add in the costs of the election, and the additional staff legal time, we will end up in the vicinity for $20 million dollars. These are the folks who claim to be all about protecting the taxpayer. This is deeply anti-social and politically irresponsible.
I had to laugh out loud when I read Clay Michell’s assertion that I was “getting close to being part of the 1%” with “a nice $328,000 contract to provide “Public Outreach Consulting Services” for SMART.
This is a good example of how SMART opponents twist the truth to create controversy where in reality there should be none.
The truth in this case is that this is the total amount of my all my contracts since 2008. If you do the math, you’ll see that I am no where near being a member of the 1%.
I don’t usually respond to these types of mis-characterizations, but I felt that this needed clarification.
Matt
Let the voters decide – why are SMART and their supports so afraid of the democratic process?
Heyokus: thanks for the additional motivation, but RepealSMART is already pretty motivated.
Many are starting to see what’s at stake.
Heyokus, obviously you don’t know whereof you speak!
RepealSMART volunteers are industriously collecting signatures all the time. Some work on their own in their own neighborhoods or with local groups. Others participate in the organized signing events in front of various commercial locations. In fact, check here for some places YOU can sign the petition today: http://www.facebook.com/#!/StopSmart.
Are you upset because you haven’t had an opportunity to sign? By all means, then, contact RepealSMART and we will connect you with a petition! http://repealsmart.org/index.php?option=com_contact&view=contact&id=2&Itemid=58
Want to be part of the solution instead of the problem? You can go out and collect signatures too. We’ll happily provide you with all the materials you’d need.
RepealSMART volunteers are the best! They are all very committed and are getting the job at hand — collecting those signatures — done. The process in on track and, in fact, exceeding expectations.
So your off-handed complaint holds no water: RepealSMART is very active!
@ George Johnson an others
TEA Party, blah, blah, blah…TEA Party, blah, blah, blah…TEA Party, blah, blah, blah…TEA Party, blah, blah, blah…TEA Party, blah, blah, blah…TEA Party, blah, blah, blah…
I’d be far more impressed with the fervor of those who oppose SMART and seek its repeal if I saw you out collecting signatures for the repeal petition. Is there one among you, apart from Clay Mitchell, who has done something more than just shoot your mouth off? I’ve got some bad news. Talk doesn’t cut it.
RE: sami lee – “Next they will want to build a buggy whip factory”
Only if it costs billions to build, millions to maintain, the factory produces thousands of whips of which only a few are sold, and the entire operation is subsidized by taxpayers. You also have to promise to spend hundred’s of thousands of dollars for propaganda, even though 70 percent of the people will see right through the facade and false promises. You also have to promise to hire people at three times the prevailing wages, with no experience in running the operation and offer over the top retirement benefits to all your best friends.
Hey, I want to be a proWHIPPER, so you’ve got my vote on building a worthless factory and offering a product that nobody wants. The key is to tell everyone it’s all about the jobs for a select few for a short period of time; forget the fact we will be paying 40 years out for those ‘jobs’. Liberals will fall that logic every time. (I guess that’s why we need to keep bumping up the federal deficit limit.)
Yes, the SMART train will be as practical and useful as a buggy whip in 2015. You can pass the kool-aid around, but I’m not drinking it.
Repeal SMART and the kool-aid drinkers.
The citizens that know about the Smart train already decided.
Now the ‘turnout’ will be at the polls.
So they use $200,000 of the tax payers money to throw a little pro-party. Of course, none of these people were commuters because the commuters are working. How lame to have people who “just want to ride the darn train, golly-gee” giving their rah-rah. Trust me…the reason why people don’t ride the buses is because they take forever to get you to work. This train-with-no-brain will even taker longer. I look at the whore of politicians who say this will create jobs. Then I research it and realize these are jobs are in other states and countries where this will be made and who will be repairing the rail. If anything, they are taking taxes from Sonoma and Marin and spreading the wealth to New York, Japan, and Germany to name a few. I rather them build an expressway which is paid exclusively by tolls with NO SUBSIDIES. All the money from the tolls go to the building and upkeep. It would be a hell of a lot cheaper and those who use it, pay for it. Otherwise, you just go on 101. Seriously, if you are so environmental and want to get to the city, then carpool your lazy ass.
After digging around online I notice that Kay Tokerud and her partner Rose Koire seem to have made a little cottage industry of their own hawking fear and Agenda 21 materials. It looks like for a fixed price (including travel and accomodations of course) they will come to your city and stir up Tea Party fear and hysteria while pretending to be democrats and progressives. Ms Koire has videos and books galore detailing assorted Marxist and Communitarian plots on her various websites.(maybe the tinfoil hats cost extra?) I guess it’s how these two make a tidy pile of extra money. Isn’t it nice that stiring up conflict and drama with paranoid ideation can be so financially remunerative? If I was a conspiracy theorist I’d say Rose and Kay have made the whole Agenda 21 thing up so that they can get frightened people to send them a lot of money….and that these boards are where she does all her trolling er, I mean advertising. Hey editor, isn’t this what’s known as SPAM?
@ Buddy Bear….this is what I gotta say…we didn’t have any union members rallying the troops. Just ordinary folks who were open to facts and a chance to make up their own minds. 30 x’s 95 is not bad for one evening.
Did you change any minds there or were there the same ol fans or maybe you got a few campers to join in?
@clay Mitchell. I am aware of who the two firms are that are bidding on the first phase. I am aware of where their home offices are. I am not aware (as I have not read the contract language) as to whether SMART is requiring certain amount of local work force be adhered to, but I have been told there is some requirement for local forces being used. I am unaware, for the same reasons stated above, whether this is a union only job but I have been told it is open to both signatory and non-signatory firms. Yes I know of specific local firms receiving contracts and employing people right now. No, I will not share them on a site like this but if I could find out, so could anyone thst is interested. I think that satisfies your latest “demands” you challenged me to make.
For those who don’t understand United Nations Agenda 21 Sustainable Development, you can get all the facts on dozens of websites for and against. Many new websites against A21 have recently sprung up as the implementation of the plan has escalated an enormous amount in the last couple of years. We’re in the end game now. Do you want to be the last person to know about this? Ignorance is curable.
People from all political affiliations, except kool-aid drinking progressive democrats, are becoming aware and forming a resistance to UN Agenda 21 and ICLEI. The Kool-aid is green and it seems to turn people into Marxists. If you’re afraid of information, feel free to get off this site and stop listening to me. It’s still a free country for a little while longer.
the regular folks who would be AGAINST the rail project were not there……yeah they were AT WORK!!!!!!!! in the real world at their REAL JOBS
I no longer live in SOCO so take my opinion with a grain of salt BUT I have always thought a commuter train was a stupid idea it would be “smart” if it 1) went all the way to SF ferry bldg and #2) this is a big “IF” everybody worked within walking/ muni ride distance from Ferry terminal…and of course if you work in MARIN there is no such meaningful transportation from San Rafael hub to many points of job locations…here’s what I see as a “SMART” solution (did not say easy)but here goes ….you need a SECOND 2 lane PAY highway going North To South starting in East Santa Rosa from Luther Burbank Park down the lane on HOEN that was originally laid out for it(still there huh?)..behind Fairgrounds down Petaluma Hill Road(paralell)..to Adobe Rd/Lakeville all the way to Marin border on hwy 37 out to the water along the coastline Past Bel Air keys.Hamilton AFB San Rafael to a NEW super modern ferry terminal at say Richmond Bridge/San Quentin area one that has high speed passenger ferries and also on that could take(small) cars..of course you can only imagine the environMENTALists screaming but cheaper to build and would actually get used AND the fees would pay for building and maintanance BTW 2 lanes with a DIVIDER(no headons)how many times did I sit at that “Bottleneck” north of Novato and look across the valley to Lakeville Hwy and think “I would PAY to be over there right now?”…………
When planned in 2000, Charlotte’s light-rail line was supposed to cost $225 million. The final cost turned out to be $467 million. Even after adjusting for inflation, that’s close to a 100 percent cost overrun. (Actually, considering inflation from 2000 to 2007, that’s about a 75 percent cost overrun.)
In 2008, the Charlotte Area Transit System (CATS) reported less than 12,000 average weekday trips on its light-rail line. The Houston and Hudson-Bergen light-rail lines, both about the same length, each carried more than 40,000 weekday riders (and can hardly be considered successes).
Given the high capital costs plus nearly $10 million in annual operating costs, the annualized cost of Charlotte’s light-rail works out to more than $3.60 per passenger mile (compared with less than $1 for a typical bus and less than $0.25 for driving, including highway subsidies which, in North Carolina, average less than half a penny per passenger mile). Of course, most of that $3.60 is subsidized; transit users paid an average of just $0.12 per passenger mile to ride it, leaving a subsidy of nearly $3.50 per passenger mile. That also works out to a subsidy of more than $20 per ride, making Charlotte more expensive than almost any light-rail system outside of Buffalo and San Jose.
Tax-increment financing was only legalized in North Carolina in 2005, but Charlotte is using it to the hilt, expecting it to help pay for both future rail lines as well as transit-oriented developments. The city has also waived property taxes on some residences in these development for 5 or more years.
Despite the high costs and trivial ridership, CATS wants more rail — but doesn’t have any money to pay for it. So it has rolled out a campaign of declaring the light rail a great success, especially in the field of economic development. Of course, in most cases it was the subsidies, not the rail, that stimulated the development, and most likely the development would have taken place somewhere in the region anyway, though perhaps not in that corridor.
So the taxpayers are out $467 million in construction costs, millions more to operate the thing, and millions more to support development that would have taken place anyway. What a great success!
Hey George, does Lynn Woolsey have her hand up your backside; sounds like any ability to reason outside the Obama box has fallen to the wayside…
@JXN- “the numbers have no bearing on the support for the project.”
I totally agree- ironic that the same people who trumpet the supposed overwhelming support for this project heavily criticized the Repeal Town Hall for it’s low numbers- the only true accurate way to measure support for the project is to take this back to the people and let them vote on the substantially changed plan.
@Chris Snyder and John Bly-
Are you gentlemen aware that none of the contractors pre-approved to bid on the major design-build work are local companies?
Are you aware that there is no requirement for local preference on these jobs? Are you aware that this is not a union project, with no PLA’s required?
With the exception of SMART staff, this project will “create” very few local jobs. Sure, there are some local folks who have been hired to do work for SMART- like Mr. Matt Stevens, who has a nice $328,000 contract to provide “Public Outreach Consulting Services” for SMART. I wonder if this rally was part of his work? Boy- with a contract like that, is he getting close to being part of the 1%?
How many local construction workers could be provided a decent wage with that kind of money?
Blind devotion to a mantra of “People Gotta Work” and support for the project on that basis is unwise…. especially if you’re not willing to get into the detail of who is getting paid what.
This 900 job number is a farce- it’s a talking point, a marketing strategy that apparently is working. SMART has presented no list of job descriptions, no methodology or calculation on how they arrived at that number. You’d think, since Farhad promised those jobs by Christmas (well, it was October originally, but now it’s Christmas) that he’d have a ready list of job descriptions and salaries… where is it?
No, this 900 jobs claim was designed to snooker unsophisticated yet hopeful folks into continuing to support a failing project. I hope you don’t fall into that category.
And I find it particularly insidious to get local unemployed folks hopes up that they are going to get hired for these jobs, which are being given to out of the area companies.
Ironic too, considering this campaign promise (quoted directly from the ballot argument):
“Every dollar will be spent locally in Marin and Sonoma Counties.”
Who signed that one? Oh… it appears that Ms. Noreen Evans signed that lie. The same Noreen Evans who lied about our movement being “anti-rail, anti-community, anti-jobs” which is simply ridiculous- we are none of those things.
Ms. Evans, we’re still waiting for an apology for your misleading statements to voters- I won’t hold my breath, cause it probably will be a while.
PLEASE- dig a little deeper. This stuff is all public record, it’s all in their meeting minutes and recordings. In fact, I’ll be happy to dig up the audio recording of Farhad explaining that there is no local employment requirements for the construction contracts.
Great Rally (I was there) and sorry that the bitter, sore loser, tea party folks are put off by the sight of people actually rallying FOR something good that will bring jobs and improve our economy. Their lies and misinformation about SMART are the same Tea Party Talking Points we hear on a national level and statewide against high speed rail. These folks hate everything that is good for the environment and improves the economy.
This SMART train is on track and I for one can’t wait to ride it! Leave Parnell, Micchell and their Negative Nancy’s and Debbie Downers at the station. Everyone who is not afraid of the future: Get on The Train!
Nice to see that they could drum up 500 people to support SMART. That would be just about SMARTs entire ridership, which puts the crux of the entire SMART dilemma into crystal sharp focus.
@Joyce & Kay
I was at the event and there was north of 200 people there, and even if the PD would have doubled the number that number would still be 5 times the amount at the repeal SMART event.
Maybe the UN is controlling the PD, or maybe people like the idea of the train!!! WHUDA THUNK IT!?
@John Bly,
Please provide some factual information (names, job descriptions) for the “current” jobs you have indicated have been created, outside of the SMART Board itself. I don’t think they exist, and based on review of public records/budgets, I haven’t seen any significant number of any unemployed/local jobs being created. The vast majority have been temporary jobs associated with the Board, and most of those have been already employed individuals/companies and many not local. If you have the facts to back up your statement, great and I’d love to look at them, but I don’t think you do.
I’m glad to see that there were so many people able to attend this rally. I would have been there myself, but I work in Rohnert Park and was not able to get up to Railroad Square during the day.
I’m very much looking forward to the SMART line and bike lane. They will make my commute from Santa Rosa to RP much more enjoyable. Every other place I’ve lived, from Seattle to Davis to Boulder, CO has had extensive transportation options beyond just driving. These included trains, buses and extensive bike routes. This is the first place I’ve lived where cars are pretty much the only thing going. I have to say, the reliance on cars definitely decreases the quality of life in what is otherwise a great place to live. Bring on the train, bring on the bike paths, and make Sonoma County an even better place to call home.
The point of the construction industry being devastated and the need for construction jobs has been made over and over. The government wasting money it doesn’t have, on a train that few will ride, that will create a lifetime drain on the over collected state “revenues” is not the answer to the construction industry’s woes.
Historically, every government project has been significantly under estimated on the cost side and over estimated on the benefit side. SMART has already revamped cost estimates, and more will come. It is already apparent that labor costs will be extraordinary given the current dozen or so “managers” are WAY overpaid and are part of the unfunded $500 BILLION pension liability CA hides from the public.
The argument for reduction in “greenhouse gases” is comical given that the carpool lanes that have gone in/are going to be put in will INCREASE greenhouse gases because no one uses them and congestion is worse. Though the facts show that the vast majority of those who use carpool lanes are soccer moms with their kids and NOT carpoolers, the state continues to waste money building them. People actually believe that those who currently ride the bus won’t just switch to the train, reducing the traffic by little?
Why can’t the government’s expenditures work like a private citizen’s? If a train is wanted, they should allocate a part of the “revenues” for a given time until there is enough to cover the project. Instead, they basically spend the money with NO means of paying for it, other than pie-in-the-sky revenue estimates from ridership and increasing taxes. There is NO means to pay the pensions for all the new employees. Nor is there any attempt to lower construction costs by NOT having prevailing wage projects.
The Sheeple will keep dreaming of this disastrous Utpoia the liars in Sacramento spout about. It is a sad situation. Those of us who can, will leave the state before the massive tax bill comes (from SMART, from pensions, from illegal alien siphoning from the ever expanding welfare state, etc). Those who don’t leave will be forced into massive tax bills in a pathetic economy.
To ‘Chris Snyder’:
Our little web site Democrats Against UN Agenda 21 is getting over 1000 hits per day. This tyranny transcends party lines,
what’s your point?
I have a ‘theory’, we’re paying you to oppose the will of the people.
Again, the ONLY polarity that matters is the oppressors and the oppressees.
Smart is not about ‘planning’ or transportation, or about ‘green’…
it IS oppression.
It’s hard to control serfs spread out across the countryside, driving cars.
Green is the guise ’till we open our eyes and realize, that control is how they roll.
The question is, did they have a city permit to demonstrate and have an out of tune band play in a public place?
@ George Johnson
“They add absolutely nothing to the discussion as you can’t argue with crazy.”
That is what a lot of us think about the pro smart people. You want a train and you don’t care if the taxpayers have to subsidize every ride (by as much as 75%), damn it, you want a train. I love trains but I believe the ridership shouldn’t be taxpayer subsidized.
To Graeme: actually I think your Greece reference is appropriate. The SAME fascist cabal that was behind that tyranny, the same brand of carrot and stick leverage of control is being emplyed in OUR community.
The main difference is instead of the IMF playing the music, it’s ICLEI and One Bay Area.
We’re dancing to an NGO’s music in OUR show.
Scrambling, doin’ the dance to protect that in which the Constitution already provides for.
It doesn’t seem like a musical, more like a horror movie.
Just for fun I googled Agenda 21 and sure enough on the Tea Party Tribune it explains this vast United Nations Conspiracy. Apparently talk show host Glen Beck has been trying to warn America for many years now of the evils of Agenda 21.
I guess SMART is somehow linked to this global consiracy to control us all through public transit options.
http://www.teapartytribune.com/2011/07/02/agenda-21-conspiracy-theory-or-real-threat/
There seems to be lots of conspiracy theorists on this site. I have no idea what Agenda 21 is or this plot to take over America through city planning. It seems rather silly to me.
The real issues are that people have been unemployed for many years running now and they need jobs. That is a fact. The construction industry is devestated many many people have lost their jobs, their houses…stresses are being put on famliy units. These are extremely tough times. We need to put people to work now. These are the facts of life folks.
@ sami lee
All the hostility and accusations! Come on, your playing the big boy game now…and that is the game that accepts lies and hostility as their tool to get what they want. The problem with that, sami lee, is there is no truth to it! If you want to be a reputable player, back up your accusations with facts and replace your hostile name calling with a little love or join the rest of the union thugs and government officials…is that the campers movement? Where’s all that peace and love you campers are preaching? No change…just more of the same?
The SMART project is currently employing many local professional people (engineers, and others)that would otherwise not be employed. All of us are reaping that benefit locally as those wages buy other products (probably some from the “naysayers”). Real people are working now, real people will be working-and that is a bad thing? I say put local folks back to work and watch construction help this area become more prosperous in transportation choices as well as economically.
If SMART is so secure in their support, why do they and the PD lie about how many people were there? I was, and they hugely overestimate the number. Lies, half truths and diversion…SMART
Still waiting for the LRT system in America that even comes close to paying for itself.
Remember, those of us who voted for SMART still think a train is a dandy idea.
Just understand that if it isn’t $elf $upporting, our electoral support evaporates.
I have no money to endlessly finance some dilletante’s private toy train line.
Why does the Press Democrat allow the crazy ravings of these so called “Agenda21″ nutjobs to take over these boards? If I have to read one more of these ICLEI sustainability paranoid posts, I am going to go as crazy as they are. I am sorry that people like Ms Tokerud (who seems to have an inordinate amount of time on her hands by the way) thinks that everything is some kind of plot to make her ride a bike, but for crying out loud enough with the Chicken Little “ICLEI” “Agenda 21″ “Delphi” delusions. PD Editor you are doing a disservice to your website and any meaningful discussion to allow these paranoid ideations to continue. They add absolutely nothing to the discussion as you can’t argue with crazy.
Do they know you can’t possibly commute on the SMART train because it takes too long And doesn’t go to or from where commuters need it to?
That is idiotic. Perhaps you can’t read a map.
The LRT system in Greece brought down an entire country because of the never ending and crushing tax burden required to support it.
Also idiotic.
To those whining about the number of people who attended, get a life. This was a small, unadvertised rally, and the numbers have no bearing on the support for the project.
Here is a study which addresses development near light rail:
http://ctod.org/portal/node/2302
quote:
All three transit lines experienced a tremendous amount of new development. Charlotte’s Blue Line had the most development, with approximately 9.8 million square feet of new space between 2005 and 2009.
Apparently, the PD doubled the count of the turnout in Railroad Square. Ever since PD reporter Chris Coursey became the primary cheerleader for Smart, the numbers have been grossly exaggerated as to ridership, length of route, bike trail, etc., and costs have been grossly underestimated. Doubling of everything involved is about their average degree of error for this major boondoggle. We will get 50% of the route and twice the cost.
The groups who organized the event are all progressive Democrats and huge supporters of United Nations Agenda 21 Sustainable Development. Our group, the Post Sustainability Institute is now receiving documents from Freedom of Information Act requests that document the ICLEI memberships and the amount of money that is being spent on paying non-governmental organizations that lobby our government to implement UN Agenda 21 in our cities and counties. We will be releasing this information as we get it.
Rail is one of their highest priorities because they want to limit or eliminate car travel. They also seek to reduce standards of living in wealthy countries such as ours because they say it is unfair to poorer nations and our prosperity does not promote social and economic equity. By United Nations standards, the American middle class people are rich and must be cut down to size. Then our carbon footprint (their words, not mine) will be reduced and the planet will be saved! What a crock.
The United Nations is the umbrella group that will be ushering in the new one world government by implementing UN Agenda 21 Sustainable Development. Our Constitution and Bill of Rights is standing in the way of their planned tyranny over all people. That’s why they are promoting things like trains and street reconfigurations that are designed to fail our economy. Once we are on the ropes economically, they can more easily seize control of our government institutions and replace them with unelected boards controlled by ICLEI and other international NGO groups that are recognized by the United Nations.
A major coup taking place right now is the ONEBAYAREA plan that was devised by the MTC and ABAG in conjunction with ICLEI that will dictate exactly where housing must be built in the bay area for the next 25 YEARS! This plan strips away property development rights from all property owners with developable land that is not located in small designated areas located, you guessed it, along train routes! This is Smart Growth! All future development will be in city centers and be densely packed in multi-story mixed-use buildings. This is social and economic engineering at work on a grand scale.
In January, you will have another opportunity to object, not really, to that plan, but they will have their troops out to control those meetings and you will be railroaded exactly like they did before. We should be occupying the MTC, ABAG, City Councils, Boards of Supervisors, the White House and UN headquarters to stop them from implementing their Machiavellian plans.
Goodness, what a lot of sour grapes from the Repeal SMART folks. Those who could barely get 20 repealers to their own meeting are complaining about the over 300 people who showed up to support SMART? I think the repealer’s small minded pettiness over a successful and positive pro rail rally is a metaphor for their whole misguided effort to destroy SMART. They can’t stand that their destructive, negative and regressive ideas are unpopular and that over 7o% of voters want SMART RAIL and the economic benefits, jobs annd improved traffic it will bring. Instead of accepting that they are in the minority, they insist on a repeal and don’t care if it costs taxpayers hundreds or even millions of dollars in costs for another election, litigation and already contracted services. Sot hey lie and spread misinformation and use the Tea Party dirty tricks crew to derail the best opportunity for jobs and economic growth that our community has going for it.
Sore losers much? Decline to Sign.
More ICLEI ‘manufactured consensus’ social engineering.
Neighborhood groups, agencies, boards, coalitions, installed ‘shills’,
‘visioning’ town hall meetings utilizing the Delphi technique designed to create the illusion of public buy in, ‘steering’ the citizens to a predetermined outcome.
Gee, look at the photos of citizens at the town hall meeting all engaged.
Paid speakers at demonstrations, it goes on and on.
Remember civics class? The whole cause and effect democratic process is backwards. The citizens are to be at cause, the government THEN effects change based on our input (LOL).
How long will it take before ALL of us realize something is terribly eschew?
Maybe when a ‘neighborhood leader’ is knocking on your door ‘mapping community assets’, looking around, taking notes.
Hitting you up for ‘mandatory volunteering’.
If something seems weird, fishy, not organic to what we were taught about how it’s supposed to work, you’re right.
Think Europe circa 1930.
According to a reliable source, there were 100 to 150 there tops! We have the video as well as pictures. How many were paid to be there? How many were recruited from the camper movement?
Don’t believe everything you read people! Your being railroaded!
repealsmart.org
find out where to sign the petition!
“This is one of the best investments that Sonoma and Marin county has made. We are creating economic prosperity,” said Sonoma County Supervisor Shirlee Zane, who is also a SMART board member.”
Really??? Please be specific, because as far as I can tell the only people who’ve benefited financially thus far is the Board the a Japanese Company. And, P.S. the majority of the Board was already employed.
I’m still waiting for those 900 jobs promised before the years end? I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me where the ridership is going to come from, as based on SMART’s own numbers, it’s low to almost non-existant for the NOW proposed train route?
Ideas are great, but lets not forget that we live in the real world and often great ideas are just that, only great ideas, and not always good reality.
And, PD, really, there is no way there were 300 people there, and 150 as reported by the IJ is probably also high, why the need to exaggerate the numbers? Why the need to spend $200,000 on an idea for which you claim consensus???? I propose you all understand that it the consensus no longer exists.
The repeal people must sit at home in their mom’s basement eating cheetos and posting online
Light rail in communities have worked in terms of housing and business clusters
The comparison to Greece just shows how ignorant and ridiculous the repeal people are
What a bunch of losers
Next they will want to build a buggy whip factory
I was there yesterday and 300 is way off Mr. Norberg I counted 100 at best. And the photos I took also show around 100 people.
I would hope that you would report the truth and not inflated numbers. But I guess that is asking to much?
I was there to hear several speakers and the band for a bit, so I was able to get a good feel of the numbers and the type of people.
Some people seemed to be there just because they were told to go. And we have proof of that because some labor union leader said at the smart board meeting this week that she was bringing people to the event.
I’m sorry but no one should bring people, people should go because they want to go on their own.
Again I voted for it in 2008 along with many others, let’s not forget that. Many that were for it are now against it. Give me what I voted for!, or ask me if I am ok with the new plans.
Did the Press Democrat reporter ask any of these “spontaneous” supporters if they were paid? Did they ask who organized the event and how they knew about it?
I guess we know where some of that $200,000 in tax dollars is going, don’t we?
Why did the Press Democrat reporter skew the story this way and leave out the most important facts? Are we to believe he never asked or didn’t consider the obvious? If so, then he’s a bad reporter rather than a biased one.
Either way, we’re getting cooked news.
The ‘Train is Insane’ This is so not the time to spend like this. The economy is in peril. How about investment in the local business community. -Out with the ideology express, in with local small business- SMART is simply this: “The building’s of fire!! Quick! Let’s plant a flower garden!” Come on people! I’m trying to keep my business afloat over here! OMG
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/11/18/MNUH1M0QPN.DTL
House votes to kill high speed rail.
Unlike the characters in the Wizard of Oz, the smart board does have a brain to realize the project isn’t financially feasible.
The smart board doesn’t have the courage to realize the whole project is a mistake in this economy with the large debt they are running up on the taxpayer credit card.
If the smart board had a heart, they would hear the pleas from the community and have an election to decide if this little train should leave the station.
In all the other places where LRT actually was built, new businesses and new jobs did not materialize along the route. Please supporters, tell me where any LRT rail system created new jobs or businesses along the route. It has not happened anywhere. This is a dream.
Why do we believe the laws of supply and demand don’t apply here? You don’t create a supply to create a demand. Demand creates supply.
If the SMART train had all the benefits these people seem to believe, it would exist and be profitable and there would be competition to meet the demand.
Do these people realize that we will be spending $86,000 per passenger, per year in taxes to support the train to nowhere?
Do they know you can’t possibly commute on the SMART train because it takes too long and doesn’t go to or from where commuters need it to?
People are believing a dream version of SMART, not the reality. Do we have to flush a billion and a half tax dollars to learn the lesson every other community has learned in all the places where LRT has already been built?
Please, SMART supporters… tell us about a single successful LRT system anywhere in the USA or Canada.
Why do we believe reality doesn’t apply here?
The LRT system in Greece brought down an entire country because of the never ending and crushing tax burden required to support it.
The big, spirited rally in Railroad Square in Santa Rosa is proof that there is a strong constituency for commuter rail in the North Bay. This is exactly the kind of investment in the future that we need to make now to generate economic activity, put construction workers back on the job, and move into the 21st century with an environmentally responsible transit network.
SMART is moving down the tracks, with new GM Farhad Mansourian in the lead locomotive. After a difficult period, he is showing the kind of gutsy leadership that supporters of SMART have been looking for. He has stated he will deliver this project, and he has shown that he means it. I am feeling better than ever about getting the project that we voted for. This train is rolling!
You can’t socially engineer a vote.
Just goes to show that the combined intelligence of a group of people is no better than its least intelligent member.
From the photos I saw, 150 would be on the high side.
It was an exciting event… so great to see such a diverse collection of people, and organizations who understand the need for clean, green transportation choices, green jobs and who will be regular users of the train and pathway. The same majority that supported SMART in 2008 by a 69.5% margin still support the project- that was quite clear today! It’s particularly exciting that with Wednesday’s SMART decision on bonding, rail and pathway construction is right around the corner!!
They don’t want a train, they want the money. After the route is built, very few jobs.
The ones that will reap MILLIONS will be gone, and we will be stuck with a $20-40 MILLION yearly bill.
Pure greed, and Wall Street plus the ‘DEVELOPERS’ will laugh all the way to the bank.
Go SMART GO! Never mind the tea party nonsense.
The usual gang of suspects show up for a train show. All of the groups have a vested interest in promoting the train to nowhere.
Zaney, a smart board member, says they are creating economic prosperity. But how can that be with a huge debt and borrowing millions to finance a little downsized train? Where is the prosperity and where does any of this make sense?
The little train has a long way to go before it reaches San Rafael. There are a lot of questions about its viability, ridership, cost and maintenance upkeep that have to be answered.
Many in the communities of Sonoma and Marin want an opportunity to vote our opinion on this boondoggle before the debt ridden plan is put in place.
Sign the petition and lets vote Repeal SMART.
How many people were there?
Marin IJ says 150
Press Democrat says 300
Farhad will no doubt say 4,000
Press Democrat:
About 300 people assembled at Santa Rosa’s Railroad Square for the hour-long rally,environmental organizations. (article above)
Marin IJ
In the face of a repeal effort, about 150 people gathered Thursday at Railroad Square in Santa Rosa to rally support for the Sonoma-Marin Area Rail
Transit commuter rail project.
http://www.marinij.com/marinnews/ci_19358907
Norean,
The voters voted in favor of a different train than what SMART is trying to build.
Thats know as fraud
I disagree with all of them.
300 people. WOW. What a show of support
The SMART Rally was very inspiring today and the band Rosie and the Railroaders made it a lot of fun. The community totally supports commuter rail in the North Bay. It was refreshing to have people getting together for something positive. I hope that the message that SMART is on its way resonates throughout the Bay Area. I thought there was more like 500. SMART is right on track.