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Firefighters boycott winemaker who criticized pensions, pay
Dario Sattui
North Bay firefighters launched a boycott of a Napa Valley winery this weekend after its owner criticized their wages and benefits in a letter published in the St. Helena Star.
The letter, written by V. Sattui Winery owner Dario Sattui, touched off a firestorm of angry comments on Facebook and Twitter by firefighters, police officers and their supporters.
“While I respect the work they do and the inherent dangers, they are greatly overpaid, work only two days a week (a third of which they sleep) and get to retire at 50 years old at 90 percent of their pay after working 30 years,” Sattui wrote in his April 9 letter.
“But maybe getting paid 90 percent of one’s maximum pay for another 25-30 years for doing nothing isn’t so unjust, as they received high salaries for working very little before they retired,” Sattui wrote.
Tim Aboudara, vice president and political director for Santa Rosa Fire Fighters IAFF Local 1401, posted a note about the letter on his Facebook page and encouraged followers on Twitter to read it on Friday night.
The response from public safety workers and their supporters inundated the winery’s Facebook page this weekend as word of the letter spread on social networking sites.
“I only hope that when your winery is burning down, no fire fighters come to help your business,” stated one post, submitted under the name of Emily Morena Orloff. “I hope your business rots in hell in this economy.”
“After Dario Sattui’s ignorant, uninformed ratings about firefighters I wouldn’t use your rot gut crap to clean auto parts,” stated another post, submitted under the name of Dan McCabe.
Several pages sprang up on Facebook to promote the boycott. One page, titled the Public Safety Boycott V Sattui Winery and Castello di Amoroso, had 819 fans by Sunday evening. Its creator was listed as Mike Stewart, who describes himself as a Ukiah fire engineer and paramedic.
A second Facebook page titled, in all caps, V SATTUI WINE TASTES LIKE RECYCLED SEWAGE, had collected 182 fans by Sunday evening. It insinuated that there were “strange labor practices” at the St. Helena winery and encouraged visitors to boycott V. Sattui wines.
“Public Safety people who want to stay healthy, and their supporters should probably avoid Sattui Wines, to avoid gagging as they drink,” stated the site’s creator, who was not publicly identified.
A post submitted under the name of Brad Conners — vice president of the Santa Rosa Police Officers’ Association — featured a picture of Sattui along with the caption: “Our hero….should anyone get flagged down by him or see him choking in a restaurant.” The post and photo were removed Sunday evening.
The vehemence of the responses prompted one supporter to urge public safety workers to tamp down their comments.
“Firefighters, medics, police, nurses and doctors do a rough job one which deserves respect. However, I am embarrassed at some of these comments that elude to not helping him if he was in a state of emergency,” stated a post submitted under the name of Sam Crenshaw, who describes himself as a paramedic on his Facebook page.
“The respect from others should be earned not expected. It is dangerous to say such things in a public forum with your name attached to it. We should approach this in a proactive way and NOT give him or others more reasons to say we are not part of a PROFESSIONAL group of people. These are tight times and such reactions can be taken in a very wrong way,” concluded the post written under Crenshaw’s name.
A copy of Sattui’s letter was placed on the site by a poster using Aboudara’s name.
“While we, of course, support the public’s right to speak their opinion, this particular author is outright slanderous against our profession, our wages/benefits, and our members,” stated the post under Aboudara’s name.
“What the author (Sattui) fails to appreciate, is that we may be able to chose whether or not to purchase his wineries’ products, but when he, his family, friends, neighbors, or employees find themselves in a moment of need, our brothers and sisters will proudly, professionally, and humbly answer the call and astound them with the high level of service they provide,” stated the post under Aboudara’s name.
- Ted Appel
Watch Sonoma County
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Pay for any position should be determined by the number of qualified applicants for the position.
There is no shortage of qualified candidates for fire department jobs. So why is the pay so high? Contra Costa web site says firefighter 40 hours start at $6240.02 per month.
This post should be erased, all its doing is salting the names of fire fighters bacause there slinging mud back and forth with the public and not really making themseles look good but neither is the public. I thought you guys were supposed to be cool under pressure? everyone has the right to say anything they want and the gov is controlled, at least i thought, by the private sector right? we all pay into the system, we all have a right to speak.
PUBLIC: you have never had the experience or scare or loosing someone in a fire, be there while a mother deals with Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, or sae a life, a house, a living being or property from fire.
To me pentions should have been dead a long time ago and if you make more than the private sector you sould be expected to save more than the private sector has to. Fiscal tradition is dead. no one is changing minds on this post. were just making eachother sound ignorant.
hey, if i was making loot i would be pissed that someone was attacking my paycheck too. I dont care who you are. we get use to what we get but the thing is in an economy thats going down the crapper, in order to preserve our way of life we all need to make sacrifices. possibly not as extreme as everyone wants.
Cynthia, with you and d-bag Sattui calling firefighters lazy, you should expect outright venomous attacks. This is a career so many people have chose for the rest of their lives and you criticize and mock them. You and your buddy Sattui can be seen as venomous attackers, so keep an eye out for hypocrisy.
What’s outright venomous is the attacks the wining FF have launched on Mr Sattui. I’ve never seen such a gang of hoodlums parading as professionals in all my life.
The truth is that just about every post denigrating Mr. Satuui comes from a FF or his wife.
I logged onto the Satuui Winery site and order wine from him, to show him my support. Those FF should be ashamed of themselves and the ring leaders should all have been terminated on the spot.
p.s. Fireman went out in the 70′s… If you don’t notice the color and gender mix in that profession these days then take off the femenist, racist glasses. They are filtering out the truth.
Goodness Gloria,
I hope you are getting therapy for your delusional jealous rages. That post is flat out venomous. Didn’t get chosen off someone’s hiring list? Thats ok, most don’t. Take a deep breath and let the anger go.
BTW: Doctors and lawyers make many times the pay of firefighters. Unless they work for the government, then their salaries are capped as well….
Please take care and don’t break the pill in half, take all your meds.
TOP TEN REASONS TO BE A FIREMAN
1. The Pubic Believes the Profession is Inherently “Dangerous” – The fact is, however, some firemen never even see a live fire, but rather cart around senior citizens and illegal immigrants that call 911 for a paramedic. Rather than receiving an ambulance, however, an entire fire truck arrives equipped with the latest gadgets and numerous firemen who stand around and watch the spectacle. Firemen are also not listed on the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics top ten most dangerous professions. Nevertheless, they boast to the public about how dangerous their profession is, and how such justifies their outrageous pay. Ironically, those employees in the top ten are silent concerning the hazards of their profession, notwithstanding their significantly lower pay. Sounds like “hero lobbying.”
http://money.msn.com/content/invest/extra/P63405.asp
2. Only High School Diploma’s Need Apply- Unlike other professions that require years of foregone income and student loans (e.g., professor, dentist, lawyer, doctor, etc.) becoming a firefighter has very generous admission standards only requiring a high school diploma, and the prerequisite young age of 18. See e.g.,
http://www.fire.lacounty.gov/helpwanted/BeAFirefighter_faq.asp#appprocess
3. The Pay that Keeps on Giving – Setting aside the fact that you only work 15 days per month, get paid while you sleep, hang out with your buddies and watch porn at the fire station, the pay is outstanding! When you include overtime pay such is often in excess of $200,000. This is not to mention your generous “defined benefit” plan. Most of us in the private industry do not even know what such is. In fact, their pay has been increasing even in light of the current California budget crisis. But they are heros and therefore they deserve such extravagant pay – what a minute, is that what it takes to be a hero, excessive pay? Some make more than the base pay of the president of the United States! See e.g.,
http://www.dailynews.com/ci_12175241
http://blog.spot.us/2009/07/17/fire-department-overtime-pay-increased-amid-citywide-budget-cuts/
http://articles.latimes.com/1994-01-13/news/mn-11383_1_westminster-fire-department
http://www.fdnntv.com/news.asp_Q_articleID_E_7589_A_title_E_Los_Angeles_Fire_Department_Overtime_Pay_Causing_Controversy
http://www.caltax.org/documents/2003/McGreevy-OvertimeLAFireDepartment10-25-03.pdf
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/president-obama-2010-complete-return.pdf
4. Don’t Worry About Uncle Sam – Many firemen are completely exempt from social security and medicare taxation because they have their own “qualifying public retirement systems” and “voluntary agreements“ between the state and the social security administration. They may also be exempt from federal and state taxation if they obtain “line-of-duty pay.” How is that for doing your part as an American. Do our soldiers get the same treatment for their line of duty?
http://www.irs.gov/govt/fslg/article/0,,id=111350,00.html
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/golden_fire_exit_Xgr8HobTyGE09gtAHLZLtM
5. Time to Get the Golf Clubs Out – With all of your days off (every month), you will have lots of time for numerous rounds of golf. Case in point, one FDNY firefighter was known for playing 50 rounds of golf in one year. Maybe that is how the disability occurred.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/golden_fire_exit_Xgr8HobTyGE09gtAHLZLtM
6. Union Protection from Salary from Disclosure – If the salary is justified why do they not want us to know about it? As a member of the union, you can rest assured they will fight the pubic disclosure of your salary and overtime pay all the way to the Supreme Court of California. I thought the public paid their salaries?
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/californiastatecases/S134253.PDF
7. Claim a “Disability” Enhance your Pension, Retire Early and Get a Second Job – This is the typical path of a firefighter. You claim a “disability” by setting the stage with your dangerous profession/hero status and then you retire early at 50, enhance your pension and find a second job.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/regional/item_S4lnM5MIw80eNfqXwZqCVJ
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/04/17/us_probes_firefighter_disability_abuse/
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Firefighter-who-quit-after-assault-verdict-draws-disability-payments_02_17-39688397.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/05/a_former_firefighter_is_suing.html
http://www.allbusiness.com/labor-employment/workers-compensation-workers-disability/13640627-1.html
http://law.justia.com/nebraska/codes/s16index/s1610031000.html
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-8181709.html
8. Why go to School and Earn Far Less. – Need I say more, notice the average salary for post-secondary teachers (with far more than a high school diploma) who earn on average $58,830. Private ambulance drivers conducing a substantially similar service earn a median wage of $30,000.
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos066.htm
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes533011.htm
9. You are Immune from Budget Cuts – Each time a budget cut occurs in California, “emergency service personnel” are exempt from budget cuts and furloughs. It is your essential status.
10. Good Old Boys Club Membership – If you are a minority and are not part of the circle of nepotism you need not apply, as these magnificent benefits are not leaving the “family business.”
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1993-08-25/news/like-father-like-daughterin-the-phoenix-fire-department-family-ties-go-a-ling-way/
http://www.thedestinlog.com/news/fire-13479-district-nepotism.html
Michael,
I genuinely appreciate your mature answer in amongst all this.
Just under $40,000 is my base salary. I do earn, in total, just over $60,000 with overtime and some other factors filtered in (of which I’m sure you’re aware).
Let me get this straight though: I was not trying to imply that EVERY firefighter or paramedic earns and works the same as me. It varies massively. But the reality is (and I’m being as sincerely truthful as I ever have been) most salaries are closer to mine than $300k. Please believe me.
In terms of education, again, I was not implying that all firefighters have this. But all paramedics do have the same or equivalent training. Non-paramedic firefighters have EMT training, which is less, but not all that far off. We do more and more training and re-training every year. It’s a lot.
And I’m not boasting at all. I was simply replying to a previous post.
JD
Paul(#188): We agree that “we all have rights to our opinion, but public service groups, whether paid or not, have given up the right to choose who and who not they will provide their service to.”
Beyond that you lost me.
What you have seen in this forum are many things spoken from frustration and offense. But would emergency responders really withhold services from someone they dislike? Being an emergency responder myself, I will categorically say it would not happen in our time and place! In fact the only such instance that I can think of, 20 years back, resulted in the disbanding of a nearby volunteer fire department. Comments and opinions aside, Paul, we take our job and our duty to act very seriously.
There is no firefighter mafia; Mr Sattui and his properties are quite safe!
The rest of your post is nonsense. Sure, there is an occasional thief among the police and arsonist among the firefighters… but they are few, widely publicized, and short lived (this has been studied). And your mandate that we hold no second jobs? Well, aside from that being likely unconstitutional, you then would be obliged to provide a middle class wage and retirement to all of us! Which, I suspect, is counter to your argument.
we all have rights to our opinion, but public service groups, whether paid or not, have given up the right to choose who and who not they will provide their service to. The boycott is not merely a boycott of products but the threat of retension of services.
This is no different than PG&E threatening to discontinue providing power if you criticize them.
We would be better off knowing that no one is coming, than hoping a responder doesn’t like us and is dawdling enough that the response is worthless. In my opinion, any public sevice group that retains the right to threaten or imply loss of services should be considered summarily illegal, disbanded at the public level, voided of all rights to state and county and fed donations, required to give back all gear, funding and equipment.
They should be denied access to any service type jobs. They have broken the main rule, bias in providing safety services. That they have openly implied their position, implies that it exists secretly, and that retractions are merely publiv denials for what they believe they have the right to do.
The public has been fed years of “you don’t even have the right to defend your home” as the cit/county/feds will provide for you. The only way you get cops to your house is if you are rich or famous, yell “put that gun down” at the 911 op, or if they think you owe them money. So, if the firefighters want to join the cops as withholders of service, don’t expect me to be for any benefit to you.
We know some of you start the fires, and this happens with individuals that need the firefighting money, so we think that the only effective way of stopping such activity is to with-hold all firefighting wages to volunteers, all money to service organizations that claim the right to bias, and scrutiny of any suspected of bias.
WE also believe that paid service pesonell should not be allowed to have other jobs, especially out of area, and lose retirement if seeking retirement from another job. If the job is so demanding, there can’t be any hidden injuries from other hard work, or sleepiness from a physically non-demanding job. how about a new slogan “honest up, from the start.”
After deducting the interest accumulated value of their own contributions, the cost to taxpayers of a COLA-adjusted pension to a Policeman/Fireman (with a 3% at 50 pension formula) who retires at age 55 with 30 years of service is MORE THAN 5 times greater than the employer- paid-for cost of the typical pension provided to a private sector worker retiring at the SAME age, with the SAME years of service, and with the SAME pay. And, the 5X multiple would be even higher if he retired earlier, at age 50-54 with 30 years of service.
Such a generous pension would bankrupt ANY Private corporation that offered it …..and it WILL eventually bankrupt all the States, Cities, and Towns that offer it ….. unless significantly reduced for CURRENT as well as NEW employees.
There are NO OTHER effective options (short of a financially equivalent increase in employee contributions …. to 30-40% of pay).
THAT, in a nutshhell describes how INCREDIBLY generous these pensions are.
JD….I don’t know where you work and I’m in no position to argue with your stated salary. However, I would assert that less than $20/hour is too low….My problem is that your logic contains a deductive fallacy. (JD is a firefighter; JD makes less than $40K/year; therefore firefighters make less than $40k a year)
The fact of the matter is most California fire fighters (especially in the Bay Area) have starting salaries of around $70K. Government salaries are posted on 90% of any given entity’s web site. Pick an entity (city, district, or county) in the bay area, go to their HR site, and look up the job class for fire fighter…I doubt you will find one with a starting salary of less than $60K.
You put forth the same fallacy in your education argument. JD is a fire fighter; JD is well educated; therefore firefighters are well educated. I doubt that there is a fire fighter job spec in CA that requires more than a HS education.
And tom,
I have never met a firefighter that would call themselves a hero. Ever. Most cringe at it. It is the great American public that dubbed 911 services heroes, and it stuck.
I agree, soldiers are brave and selfless and do a great deal for us. But, they also have the opportunity to have a house paid for them – not that this matters at all, but it affects their salary greatly.
Everyone chooses a job. Everyone does that knowing full-well what cash/perks they’ll earn. I’m happy with my $39,947.
But I would very much like to meet whoever is on $300k, as Mr Sattui claims.
Jalama,
You are grossly ill-informed about the work of your local Fire Department. Give them a ring, see if you can arrange a ride-out.
Zuma,
I am a firefighter/paramedic.
After completing High School at 18, I went on to get a BSc in Emergency Medical Care, which took 3 years.
Then, before my 22nd birthday, I took the two CA state exams as well as the paramedic licensure exam.
I then spent 1 year on probation as a paramedic, after previously doing 2 as an EMT.
I now work 40+ hours a week and earn a base salary of $39,947.
I tend to get upwards of 7 calls a day, mainly medical, which can take anything from 25 minutes to 3 hours to clear.
There are the facts!
@ Jake: Thank you for the more objective approach to this valid issue. Both sides on these boards have made ad hominem attacks, which always destroy validity in an argument and come across as emotional and defensive.
You do a much better job of representing your constituency than most of your brethren on here. I was starting to lose respect for fire fighters in general and you reminded me that those on here do not necessarily represent a majority.
While I believe that fire fighters are somewhat over-compensated and 3% @ 50 is unsustainable by tax payers; I do believe they should be well compensated… we might disagree on just how well, but it would be nice to at least have a fair, open, and objective dialogue on the issue, without being personally attacked by either side.
Mr. Sattui… yer a schmuck for writing crappy things about our fire fighters. The point you were trying to make was lost when you went overboard with the ridiculous summation of how hard our fire fighters work. Any remaining respect I had for you went away when you published your nut-less clarification of what you originally wrote. If you’re gonna say it, have the stones to stand by it.
Fire fighters and police officers and anyone participating in this boycott… yer all schmucks. You’re all so righteously indignant that you can’t see what’s happening around you. The Governator is howling for pension reform and everyone but public safety has already gone lean and tightened their belts. (You guys offered up the paid crossing guards as your concession. nice.) People are beginning to debate your retirement packages… and not just here. Read the news.
Bad timing guys.
I have friends who are emergency service workers. I do appreciate their work. While they work hard to be prepared and their job can be life-threatening, that is a choice they make when going for this career.
It is a noble and challenging career.
That said, unions are known for waste. Most other industries that require union labor are pushed to the brink by union folly. The only thing that keeps emergency service criticism low is their type of work and how politically unpopular it is to speak your mind about it.
This is America, so you have the right to get as much as you can. However, entitlement is not part of that.
Point: I’m fine with salaries for emergency services due to inherent risk. I am against union practices which encourage waste and entitlement.
The St. helena volunteer fire fighters have a bit of a hero complex in their crew especially with one coward captain that use his volunteer firefighter badge like he’s a police officer. He has also filed false police reports on people wasting police and court time, which i believe is a felony, a misdemeanor at least… If they were real volunteers they wouldn’t be paid, especially not $1000 + a day when they go help the forestry fight real fires, that they probably have no business or training to fight…
Firefighters are like drunks. They think they aren’t a problem, but they are. It would be cheaper for us to fund an IRA for each retiree and toss them into the real world like the people they worked for. For the new hires, IRA’s only and hire enough men for three shifts(at a reality rate). Extra firemen with no overtime, no sleeping, five days a month, lifting weights and playing ping pong jobs(inerspersed with traffic accidents and the occasional fire).
Let’s stop this already. Mr. Sattui’s remarks were very inflammatory and inaccurate, but he had something to say. Being a firefighter, I can say I have a job to do. I do not want the title of hero. I do things that are dangerous, I do have some down time, I cluster my work hours in 24 hour shifts allowing to share quality time with my family (but still work 56 hours/wk), and I get paid a wage that allows me to support my family in the area.
I have been hurt multiple times, I have missed many special events and holidays with my family because of work, and I have seen things at work that people shouldn’t have to see. IT’S PART OF THE JOB.
As for being compensated for this, there are things that need to be understood by the public at large. Firefighters salaries are fair wages. When you hear of inflated wages, they are usually referring to a few positions (upper level management) and figures that reflect overtime. Overtime exists because management realizes it is cheaper to pay overtime than hire extra people. Then they would have to pay their salary and their benefits package (vacation, disability insurance, etc.). It’s the equivalent of a company hiring out from a temp. agency instead of hiring a full time employee, a cost cutting measure.
When articles claim firefighters are making $200K a year, it is the equivalent of working over 100 per week, every week of the year.
As far as retirement goes, have you ever seen a 50 year old baseball player? Football player? Firefighting is a physical job and as people get older, they cannot do the things they did when they were younger, or at least they have an increased risk of injury. If you needed to be dragged out a house, would you want a 35 Y/O or 62 Y/O doing it?
Also, how many jobs pay 9% of their salaries into their retirment system to ensure they have an income after they are not really able to effectively do their job.
Both sides have taken their opinions to the extreme. Hopefully, this information above will not spark more debate, but just put a little better understanding of why things are the way they are.
Wishing all of a you safe and happy lives…….
Art, you mean “principles”.
Zuma,
Unfortunately you also are mis-informed. There is not a firefighter out there who makes $164,000 a year for their base pay. (The exception maybe being the Fire Chief)Wages like that would be earned through large amounts of overtime. At least 50+ 24 hour shifts of it. That is on top of the 56 hours/week already worked. That would be over two full time jobs worth of work. The majority of firefighters make no where near that amount.
It’s nice to have you involved in the discussion but PLEASE represent the whole truth.
Interesting….
http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/109379/americas-most-stressful-jobs-2010?mod=career-worklife_balance
I looked and looked, and I couldn’t find winemaker on here anywhere!
Andrea, God-forbid you will ever need the services of the people you criticize. People who put their lives on the line deserve to be compensated well. Sattui has never had to put his life on the line to make the money he does…he is ungrateful son of a “beach”!
I am sorry! The job of a firemen is worth 50,000 a year, not 164,000!
How many years of college is required?
How many years of graduate school?
How many years of internship?
How many state exams or licenses are required?
Average salary for firmen is about 45,000 a year in the USA!
Here’s something interesting, CNBC reports on a survey by CareerCast.com that Firefighter is the number one most stressful profession in America. Grape grower wine maker wasn’t among those mentioned in the most stressful 21 careers in America. Maybe it’s listed in the 21 most self congratulatory and pompous.
A boycott of the alcoholic products made and sold by a guy who has become very wealthy making them seems fair enough, especially if the boycott is by the members of a group he publicly denigrates by implying they are overpaid and underworked. This from a guy who hires others to work his fields and vats. He is entitled to his free speech and 15 minutes of fame and the people he has castigated are equally entitled to do whatever they have to do in their own defense.
Of course the Press Democrat with its history of anti-unionism and long time general dislike of public employee wages and benefits gets to keep the fires of discord going and sells a few more newspapers.
Hey don’t blame the overpaid employees, YOU voted for the shmucks that gave them the money without batting an eye.
Ever wonder why the unions contribute so much money to the snakes in office?
Now you ask them to cut their money? Yeah sure. Once you give free money away, not so easy to take it back. Perfect example of the Welfare…..see what will happen when you stop the free money for the people in LA , Chicago etc…..
Only way to equalize all this mess is to make the country Social….like your master and savior Obama is doing.
More power to him….you voted for him too!
I stopped voting this crooked system years ago when I figured out it didn’t make one bit of difference who is in charge….they are all crooks…..prove me wrong…
I have to respect Santui for speaking out and saying the truth……too bad some of the people CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
Enjoy your servitude…you deserve what you get!
Let’s vote another feel good program and reward someone for doing nothing….since it will make you feel better.
Plus, the owner is critisizing(sp) on how much firefighters and police officers get paid, but I guarantee that he gets paid A LOT more than they do and what does he do all day, sit on his butt.
Business owners dont get paid- they pay themselves from profits. Please learn to spell and please learn some basic busines principals
I find it interesting that every time finances get tight the finger of blame gets pointed at public employees. What about the mismanagement of the local and state governments? What about the financial institutions and brokers who profited heavily from all the irresponsible actions of citizens who couldn’t afford the loans they got? What about the revenue generating, job creating businesses that have been denied? These are the real causes of the economic downturn. Look at the actions of our state when we had the last budget surplus. Rather than pay down the debt they decided to spend, spend, spend.
Firefighters work a 56 hour week. In the “private” sector that would be 40 hours regular time and 16 hours overtime. That means a starting firefighter makes around $20/hour(hardly outrageous). As for sleeping 1/3 of the time…ever heard of sleep deprivation? Many fire stations run 3-5 calls per night. Try waking up 3 times a night and sprinting for 20 minutes each time before you go back to sleep. Then picture someone standing over you with a balloon and a needle just waiting to pop it at any moment. It’s very restful I assure you.
There are also many studies that show that firefighters live an average of 10 years less, are more likely to develop cancer, are more likely to have heart attacks, are more likely to develop traumatic stress disorders, likely to contract diseases (like hep C), incur debilitating injuries, and so on…over your average private sector employee. As for 90% of my salary at 50…I was 38 when I was hired. I’ll be lucky to make it to 55 without injury and get 51%. What a racket (Not!). Most of the people I was hired with were around 28.
Don’t get me wrong, I love my job but that doesn’t mean I would be willing to do it for nothing. The compensation is fair for the risks and sacrifices.
since 9/11 everyone considers police/fire/paramedics “heroes” and that they should be compensated as such–the true heroes are soldiers who don’t make
anywhere close to this kind of money–
do you think they would work for what a soldier makes?? no way—-so they should be grateful for the cake job they have
I find funny firefighters, police, paramedics being accused of being overpaid. We do not think about that,, or at least voice the same concern for overpaid, self serving politicians. My point is that unlike somebody above suggested, this work should be done for people whoi love it, not for the money. That’s a joke to me. Certain professions need to be paid for “stand by”. I much prefer have to be helped by well paid firefighters, police officer, paramedic. Than by underpaid, unhappy and worried about their finances.
These are also highly trained professional, not mostly illiterate and undocumented grape pickers. Unions only exist also becouse of vthe abuse and disregard for employee safety by businessman. Everytime you enjoy yourt Sunday with with fanmily, thank the unions. Otherwise you would be working, and for minimun wage.
If you want to earn less, have noi benefits, no health coverage for you ort you wife/husband or children be my guess. Your solution is very easy: Don’t join a union.
Nurses, fire fighters and cops are all necessary and serve vital functions in society.
I also hear their unions saying that they should essentially be paid more because their jobs suck….If they hate their jobs they should quit. Slavery ended in 1863.
I’m sure there are many in these occupations who would continue to do these jobs at lesser pay because they truly love their career. Imagine how much happier these folks would be if the whiney, “in it for the money” crowd went to work somewhere else.
Dear Mike,
Nice comment (really). But to “man up” as you say, requires action, not words.
In your comment, you acknowledged that the increase from 2% to 3% “was a gift” and that (quoting) … “It appears that my unearned pension bump is significantly contributing to the fiscal crisis in CA.”
Are YOU willing enough to (man up) to give back the extra 1%. If “technically” you cannot just ask for a reduction, will you donate it this year and every year back to the city ?
By-the-way, you & I know that this “gift” was from ploiticians whose favor is bought with your Union’s money and election support. Private Sector Taxpayers would never have alloweed this if they CLEARLY understood what was going on.
Depending on how long you (and your spouse) live, YOUR “gift” alone will likely have a value of $0.5-$1 MILLION.
What Mr. Sattui fails to understand is public safety personnel are truly paid for what they might have to do. I have given death notifications to both child and parents. I have given CPR to someone who died. I have been assualted and now I am asked give back some of my salary to balance a poorly managed budget….Oh and for more than half of my career I have missed Christmas, Thanksgiving, my childs birthdays and such because I was working. Mr Sattui what have you done to make a difference?..Oh and I almost forgot I have also arrested drunk drivers who spent the day “Wine Tasting”…
Mike,
Is it safe for me to assume that you’re writing a check back to your former employer for the difference between your 2% @ 50 and 3% @ 50 retirement? Because otherwise, I think you’re pretty much saying, “I got it, and I’m keeping it, but I don’t think you should get it.” That argument has ZERO credibility.
As a retired firefighter I find most of the comments, presumably made by fellow firefighters and their supporters, highly disturbing. After working for 28 years for a CA City in the fire service I reached my eligible retirement age of 50 in 2001. My pension formula all of those years was 2% @ 50, which meant I could retire at 50 with 56% of my salary. Within a year, the City agreed to raise our retirement formula to 3% @ 50 and I was suddenly eligible to retire with 3 x 29 = 87% of my salary. A 30% gift overnight. The City was told by CalPers that it would cost the City nothing to offer this generous benefit. Within a year, I and 1/3 of my fellow firefighters were retired. I have stayed informed of what is going on with my former employer since I continue to live in the city. I was astonished to learn that the City’s pension costs have quadrupled since 2002, which now costs the city over $5 million additionally each year just for the police and firefighters alone. The City has laid off employees, closed the senior center, pools, and cut many senior programs – the same amenities and programs that I was counting on in my retirement. I am now worried if my pension is safe. I have friends who were forced to go back to work when their pensions were cut in half (United Airlines). Will this happen to me and other government employees in CA. It appears that my unearned pension bump is significantly contributing to the fiscal crisis in CA. This is not a public safety issue! This is fiscal issue, which needs to be discussed in an open and direct way. Mr. Sattui has legitimate concerns. I am very disappointed in our public servants for their vitriol and vicious attacks. It is demeaning and undermines our credibility. The logic that we risk our lives and deserve whatever we earn is frivolous. Using that logic there can be no cap on our salary, since what is the value of human life. No salary or benefit is too high then. Well many cities are broke so personnel costs are critical. To not have this discussion would be irresponsible and only proves the point that the public safety unions have gotten to powerful. Most firefighters in this country are volunteers and do so proudly and with honor. We paid firefighters sound like spoiled children. Time to man up.
All I have to say is 9/11. These guys and gals deserve all the money they get! Have any of you been in a fire? I have, when I was 12 years old and I thank God there are men and women who are willing to do these jobs. Thanks to all the firefighters, police and paramedics!
I see that after he made his comment that he has left for a month. Couldn’t take the heat.
If you want to see a firefighter resting, go to u tube and search “redwood shores fire”.
Alex: It was a per 1000 person number. A ratio. Since the construction workers had more people (total numbers) and a higher ratio, they also must have had a higher death toll (total numbers).
And it’s not about if Sattui is better paid for sitting on his butt. He’s not being paid by “the people” to sit on his butt. He has a capitalistic enterprise.
Just proves that Civil Servant unions (and many of their members) are a cancer on society.
These Unions should be exterminated like the parasites they are.
Come on citizens/Taxpayers …. are you going to put up with this intimidation?
He’s correct … you know he is and you know you are being ripped off pay the outrageous salaries & benefits of police/fireman.
Protest & SUPPORT this guy with your wallet and show the GREEDY Civil Servants that you NOT going to put up with this crap …as well as their ridiculous pay, pensions & benefits any longer !
BUY his wine by the case … !
Where can I go buy some Sattui wine? I’d love to keep this guy in business. Anything to put it in the face of those snot-nosed firefighters. 90% of there salary after 30 years. WTF? Now I know why CA is broke. It’s becasue yuo stupid morons keep electing Democrats. What’s it going to take? When you’re eating cat food in retirement while they’re eating steak and caviar?
Regarding “thefacts”:
As I agree with you, I have found that some of your facts are indeed wrong. Of course I rule in favor of the firefighters and police, but I don’t want false allocations in favor of police/fire.
1. You CAN join a state angency before the age of 21. Go to the California Highway Patrol website or contact them by phone and they will say that they hire at 18, but it is extremely rare!
2. I know plenty of people who will retire at the age of 50 that will get 90% of their pay. This is not unusual. In order to get 90% of their pay, they would have to join onto the force as they are 21, but people do and as a result, they get 90% of their pay.
Like I said, I’m not trying to bash you in any way, shape, or form, I’m just trying to not give any false allocations for any side.
And I agree, the man does have every right to speak his opinion, but he could’ve done it in a more professional manner. Also, as much as I don’t like the man for saying that, he doesn’t deserve people saying that they won’t ever visit his winery or buy his wine ever again, as it has no relation to the topic. If his wine is good, then drink it. Don’t stop drinking it because of one comment. That’s just a sign of ignorance and immaturity.
Correct Andrea, citizens pay for their salaries. But think of it this way, you’re paying for their service just like PG&E. You are paying for the police to protect you from getting house broken into, you getting hit by your spouse, your car getting broken into. You’re paying the firefighters to make sure that your house won’t burn down at 2 o’clock in the morning. You’re paying for the firefighters to run into a burning building risking their lives sacraficing themselves from their family just to make sure that you can go back to your family. You are paying a small amount of money compared to what you should be paying to go to sleep and feel safe throughout the night. So if you don’t like that, then welcome to reality!
this is really embarrassing i’m sure for the winery, and mr. sattui. i don’t think he realizes how small his world is. he spoke on something he was very passionate about but clearly not well informed. still, i think it’s rather sickening that ANY PUBLIC SERVANT would deny help to anyone in this country for any reason. i refuse to believe that any one of those men would not do the best they could to assist mr. sattui if he so needed. stranger things have happened. mr. sattui as smart of a business man as he tends to think, as this could pretty much ruin him for a while.
Good for Dario! Speak the truth Brother!
NOTE: To all public servants, You work for us! We pay your salary! If you don’t like it, get a job in the private sector where you actually have to work hard and you won’t be a able to hide behind your union bosses skirts!!!